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	<title>Comments on: 10 ways to feed your family without killing the planet (Blog Action Day)</title>
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	<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/10/15/10-ways-to-feed-your-family-without-killing-the-planet-blog-action-day/</link>
	<description>...exploring the art and science of parenting</description>
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		<title>By: phdinparenting</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/10/15/10-ways-to-feed-your-family-without-killing-the-planet-blog-action-day/#comment-25510</link>
		<dc:creator>phdinparenting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=2951#comment-25510</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Sue: &lt;/strong&gt;

You are right that organic on its own doesn&#039;t necessarily mean better. For example, you could get an organic product with high levels of sodium, high levels of fat and few useful ingredients in it and that would not even come close to being as nutritious as fresh non-organic vegetables. However, when comparing similar products (a bag of locally grown organic carrots versus a bag of locally grown non-organic carrots), then organic is generally better. 

I don&#039;t know where you got the idea that a little farmer can simply put the organic label on his produce in order to compete with big business. I don&#039;t know where you live, but in Canada &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/orgbio/orgbioe.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;calling your products organic requires certification if you are selling them across provincial or international borders&lt;/a&gt;. In terms of local products, people should look for certified organic if they want to be sure or should look into the farmer&#039;s practices themselves. In fact, non-certified organic is often a good choice because they are doing all of the things required to be organic, but haven&#039;t gone through the expensive certification process and therefore don&#039;t have to incorporate the costs of certification into their prices. 

With regards to yields and local distribution, we get a weekly Community Supported Agriculture basket from May to November. Their distribution is very efficient (they distribute to 4 pick-up points weekly and people pick up their baskets there on their commute home). With the bulk international shipment that you refer to, you need to consider not only the bulk shipment, but also the fact that it needs to get to local stores once it arrives in a particular area. 

Anyway...I think it is worth questioning things. But I think you are (a) too quick to assume there are no benefits at all to local/organic and (b) too quick too assume that people are duped into thinking that because something is organic or natural that it is healthy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Sue: </strong></p>
<p>You are right that organic on its own doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean better. For example, you could get an organic product with high levels of sodium, high levels of fat and few useful ingredients in it and that would not even come close to being as nutritious as fresh non-organic vegetables. However, when comparing similar products (a bag of locally grown organic carrots versus a bag of locally grown non-organic carrots), then organic is generally better. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know where you got the idea that a little farmer can simply put the organic label on his produce in order to compete with big business. I don&#8217;t know where you live, but in Canada <a href="http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/orgbio/orgbioe.shtml" rel="nofollow">calling your products organic requires certification if you are selling them across provincial or international borders</a>. In terms of local products, people should look for certified organic if they want to be sure or should look into the farmer&#8217;s practices themselves. In fact, non-certified organic is often a good choice because they are doing all of the things required to be organic, but haven&#8217;t gone through the expensive certification process and therefore don&#8217;t have to incorporate the costs of certification into their prices. </p>
<p>With regards to yields and local distribution, we get a weekly Community Supported Agriculture basket from May to November. Their distribution is very efficient (they distribute to 4 pick-up points weekly and people pick up their baskets there on their commute home). With the bulk international shipment that you refer to, you need to consider not only the bulk shipment, but also the fact that it needs to get to local stores once it arrives in a particular area. </p>
<p>Anyway&#8230;I think it is worth questioning things. But I think you are (a) too quick to assume there are no benefits at all to local/organic and (b) too quick too assume that people are duped into thinking that because something is organic or natural that it is healthy.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/10/15/10-ways-to-feed-your-family-without-killing-the-planet-blog-action-day/#comment-25498</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=2951#comment-25498</guid>
		<description>While I agree with most of these points, the one about organic foods is just completely false. Firstly, organic food has a much lower yield. Therefore, you need more land to get the same amount of product, which means you need to cut more into forests and other animal-friendly habitats. 

Secondly, the &quot;local farmers&quot; distribution model is very inefficient. While big businesses may ship longer distances, they do so in bulk. Their model is actually quite a bit more energy efficient. The main reason for this is that the food is brought, in bulk, to a local urban centre so that individual drivers don&#039;t have to drive as far to get it. Just to give you a link to work with, here&#039;s the first I came up with from a quick google search: http://www.salon.com/mwt/food/eat_drink/2008/06/24/food_miles/

And finally, the pesticides in the environment thing is... iffy at best. Manure, for example, is as wasteful to produce as meat (for obvious reasons) and can infect the food with all sorts of nasties like e-coli. Non-organic fertilizers are generally quite safe, and part of the reason is that they are controlled and always being improved. 

I think it&#039;s important to remember that &quot;organic&quot; and &quot;natural&quot; don&#039;t necessarily mean &quot;better.&quot; There&#039;s a lot of marketing going on and these words are just tools in the corporation&#039;s arsenal. When you really get down to it, what does &quot;organic&quot; really mean? What does &quot;natural&quot; really mean? Again and again, we see that these things are just being thrown around to make money. The little farmer can&#039;t compete with the big business? All he has to do is start calling his product &quot;organic&quot; and suddenly he has a competitive edge - whether his product is actually better or not. It&#039;s like that whole pro-biotic fiasco we&#039;ve had recently where pro-biotics were being marketed as immune system boosters and having all these health benefits. Suddenly, someone looked into it and it turns out that none of these claims could be substantiated and all the advertising had to be changed. But the &quot;pro-biotics = good&quot; formula was already engraved in people&#039;s brains, so it didn&#039;t really matter. They could put &quot;pro-biotic&quot; on the packaging and shoppers would make all the connections without them having to explicitly talk about them.

This is turning into a long comment, but I think it&#039;s very important to get this idea through. We have been sold a fantasy - that we can break free from the mega-corporations, from the immoral marketing campaigns, by &quot;going natural.&quot; This was sold to us using the exact same strategies that any other products are sold, and it&#039;s turning organic into a multi-billion dollar industry - one that no one questions because it&#039;s already been bought as the &quot;non-corporate option.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with most of these points, the one about organic foods is just completely false. Firstly, organic food has a much lower yield. Therefore, you need more land to get the same amount of product, which means you need to cut more into forests and other animal-friendly habitats. </p>
<p>Secondly, the &#8220;local farmers&#8221; distribution model is very inefficient. While big businesses may ship longer distances, they do so in bulk. Their model is actually quite a bit more energy efficient. The main reason for this is that the food is brought, in bulk, to a local urban centre so that individual drivers don&#8217;t have to drive as far to get it. Just to give you a link to work with, here&#8217;s the first I came up with from a quick google search: <a href="http://www.salon.com/mwt/food/eat_drink/2008/06/24/food_miles/" rel="nofollow">http://www.salon.com/mwt/food/eat_drink/2008/06/24/food_miles/</a></p>
<p>And finally, the pesticides in the environment thing is&#8230; iffy at best. Manure, for example, is as wasteful to produce as meat (for obvious reasons) and can infect the food with all sorts of nasties like e-coli. Non-organic fertilizers are generally quite safe, and part of the reason is that they are controlled and always being improved. </p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s important to remember that &#8220;organic&#8221; and &#8220;natural&#8221; don&#8217;t necessarily mean &#8220;better.&#8221; There&#8217;s a lot of marketing going on and these words are just tools in the corporation&#8217;s arsenal. When you really get down to it, what does &#8220;organic&#8221; really mean? What does &#8220;natural&#8221; really mean? Again and again, we see that these things are just being thrown around to make money. The little farmer can&#8217;t compete with the big business? All he has to do is start calling his product &#8220;organic&#8221; and suddenly he has a competitive edge &#8211; whether his product is actually better or not. It&#8217;s like that whole pro-biotic fiasco we&#8217;ve had recently where pro-biotics were being marketed as immune system boosters and having all these health benefits. Suddenly, someone looked into it and it turns out that none of these claims could be substantiated and all the advertising had to be changed. But the &#8220;pro-biotics = good&#8221; formula was already engraved in people&#8217;s brains, so it didn&#8217;t really matter. They could put &#8220;pro-biotic&#8221; on the packaging and shoppers would make all the connections without them having to explicitly talk about them.</p>
<p>This is turning into a long comment, but I think it&#8217;s very important to get this idea through. We have been sold a fantasy &#8211; that we can break free from the mega-corporations, from the immoral marketing campaigns, by &#8220;going natural.&#8221; This was sold to us using the exact same strategies that any other products are sold, and it&#8217;s turning organic into a multi-billion dollar industry &#8211; one that no one questions because it&#8217;s already been bought as the &#8220;non-corporate option.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: phdinparenting</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/10/15/10-ways-to-feed-your-family-without-killing-the-planet-blog-action-day/#comment-23416</link>
		<dc:creator>phdinparenting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 02:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=2951#comment-23416</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Rob Wilcox:&lt;/strong&gt;

Ours is too...and it is about to get worse. In the spring, summer and fall we get a CSA basket each week with little to no packaging and they take back and re-use any packaging that they do include. However, last week was the last week, so we now enter the winter season, which involves more packaging than the summer. It is especially annoying that it is harder to get organic brands without packaging than it is to get non-organic brands without packaging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Rob Wilcox:</strong></p>
<p>Ours is too&#8230;and it is about to get worse. In the spring, summer and fall we get a CSA basket each week with little to no packaging and they take back and re-use any packaging that they do include. However, last week was the last week, so we now enter the winter season, which involves more packaging than the summer. It is especially annoying that it is harder to get organic brands without packaging than it is to get non-organic brands without packaging.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Wilcox</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/10/15/10-ways-to-feed-your-family-without-killing-the-planet-blog-action-day/#comment-23399</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Wilcox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=2951#comment-23399</guid>
		<description>Great blog - we&#039;re looking forward to sharing this one with our audience.

Something we&#039;ve added to our grocery list: limiting purchases of products that *don&#039;t* come in recyclable containers. Makes you look twice - but our recycle bin is getting to be much fuller than the trash bin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great blog &#8211; we&#8217;re looking forward to sharing this one with our audience.</p>
<p>Something we&#8217;ve added to our grocery list: limiting purchases of products that *don&#8217;t* come in recyclable containers. Makes you look twice &#8211; but our recycle bin is getting to be much fuller than the trash bin.</p>
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		<title>By: phdinparenting</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/10/15/10-ways-to-feed-your-family-without-killing-the-planet-blog-action-day/#comment-20724</link>
		<dc:creator>phdinparenting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=2951#comment-20724</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@susie: &lt;/strong&gt;

That is a good one too! 

I am often frustrated when my favourite organic brands are available only in small packages with lots of packaging. I&#039;m glad we at least have our CSA for vegetables.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@susie: </strong></p>
<p>That is a good one too! </p>
<p>I am often frustrated when my favourite organic brands are available only in small packages with lots of packaging. I&#8217;m glad we at least have our CSA for vegetables.</p>
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		<title>By: susie ;)</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/10/15/10-ways-to-feed-your-family-without-killing-the-planet-blog-action-day/#comment-20682</link>
		<dc:creator>susie ;)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 13:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=2951#comment-20682</guid>
		<description>How about buying in bulk?  That greatly reduces the amount of packaging consumed, not to mention the fact you will save $$$.

susie ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about buying in bulk?  That greatly reduces the amount of packaging consumed, not to mention the fact you will save $$$.</p>
<p>susie <img src='http://www.phdinparenting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Wired For Noise &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Climate Change &#8211; Blog Action Day</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/10/15/10-ways-to-feed-your-family-without-killing-the-planet-blog-action-day/#comment-20562</link>
		<dc:creator>Wired For Noise &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Climate Change &#8211; Blog Action Day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=2951#comment-20562</guid>
		<description>[...] 10 ways to feed your family without killing the planet (Blog Action Day) &#8211; PhD in Parenting [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 10 ways to feed your family without killing the planet (Blog Action Day) &#8211; PhD in Parenting [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Zoeyjane</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/10/15/10-ways-to-feed-your-family-without-killing-the-planet-blog-action-day/#comment-20551</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoeyjane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 18:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=2951#comment-20551</guid>
		<description>Great post, filled with lots of (seemingly easy-to-incorporate) ideas!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, filled with lots of (seemingly easy-to-incorporate) ideas!</p>
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		<title>By: crunchy domestic goddess (amy)</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/10/15/10-ways-to-feed-your-family-without-killing-the-planet-blog-action-day/#comment-20541</link>
		<dc:creator>crunchy domestic goddess (amy)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=2951#comment-20541</guid>
		<description>great ideas! thanks for including the ditch the disposables challenge in there. :) hope you can have a relaxing blog-free weekend. you deserve it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great ideas! thanks for including the ditch the disposables challenge in there. <img src='http://www.phdinparenting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  hope you can have a relaxing blog-free weekend. you deserve it!</p>
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		<title>By: phdinparenting</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/10/15/10-ways-to-feed-your-family-without-killing-the-planet-blog-action-day/#comment-20532</link>
		<dc:creator>phdinparenting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=2951#comment-20532</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Marcy:&lt;/strong&gt; Breastfeeding is certainly not a guaranteed natural child spacer. It is generally effective if you are nursing on demand around the clock, not using any pacifiers or bottles, and haven&#039;t introduced any other foods. But I would never count on it for birth control. However in terms of overall population control, especially in overpopulated areas struck by severe poverty, breastfeeding can make a dent in the overall trend of overpopulation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Marcy:</strong> Breastfeeding is certainly not a guaranteed natural child spacer. It is generally effective if you are nursing on demand around the clock, not using any pacifiers or bottles, and haven&#8217;t introduced any other foods. But I would never count on it for birth control. However in terms of overall population control, especially in overpopulated areas struck by severe poverty, breastfeeding can make a dent in the overall trend of overpopulation.</p>
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