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	<title>Comments on: IComLeavWe: Day 4</title>
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	<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/11/24/icomleavwe-day-4/</link>
	<description>...exploring the art and science of parenting</description>
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		<title>By: Is it wrong to label your child with your religion? &#124; Vancouver Sun Blogs</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/11/24/icomleavwe-day-4/#comment-155371</link>
		<dc:creator>Is it wrong to label your child with your religion? &#124; Vancouver Sun Blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2011 16:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=3264#comment-155371</guid>
		<description>[...] The post concerns an atheist-sponsored bus campaign in Britain that encourages parents not to automatically label their children with their own religion (originally brought to Annie&#8217;s attention by the atheist parenting blog The Meming of Life). Here&#8217;s the billboard: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The post concerns an atheist-sponsored bus campaign in Britain that encourages parents not to automatically label their children with their own religion (originally brought to Annie&#8217;s attention by the atheist parenting blog The Meming of Life). Here&#8217;s the billboard: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kara</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/11/24/icomleavwe-day-4/#comment-68585</link>
		<dc:creator>Kara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=3264#comment-68585</guid>
		<description>I feel strongly about not picking my children&#039;s religion for them.  But I also see a great benefit in being part of a religious community during childhood.  Not just exposing them or teaching them about religions of the world, but actually engaging in religious ritual, traditions, attending worship services, etc.  I&#039;m a Unitarian Universalist which is a religion that is very committed to acceptance and tolerance of all spiritual paths.  My children attend my church with me and go to RE classes.  Even with such a liberal faith, I&#039;m still very conscious about not imposing my beliefs on them and having the focus be on helping them work out what they believe.  I&#039;m grateful that my religion supports me in their faith development.  Our &quot;Coming of Age&quot; program, walks our teenagers through a process of exploring what they believe (or not) about the world.  If they are ready they prepare a &quot;faith statement&quot; to the congregation about what they believe.  Any beliefs are accepted from them (including atheism), with an acknowledgement that faith is evolving and that is likely to change throughout ones life.  I wish I&#039;d had something like this as a kid, to help me honestly and openly explore my spirituality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel strongly about not picking my children&#8217;s religion for them.  But I also see a great benefit in being part of a religious community during childhood.  Not just exposing them or teaching them about religions of the world, but actually engaging in religious ritual, traditions, attending worship services, etc.  I&#8217;m a Unitarian Universalist which is a religion that is very committed to acceptance and tolerance of all spiritual paths.  My children attend my church with me and go to RE classes.  Even with such a liberal faith, I&#8217;m still very conscious about not imposing my beliefs on them and having the focus be on helping them work out what they believe.  I&#8217;m grateful that my religion supports me in their faith development.  Our &#8220;Coming of Age&#8221; program, walks our teenagers through a process of exploring what they believe (or not) about the world.  If they are ready they prepare a &#8220;faith statement&#8221; to the congregation about what they believe.  Any beliefs are accepted from them (including atheism), with an acknowledgement that faith is evolving and that is likely to change throughout ones life.  I wish I&#8217;d had something like this as a kid, to help me honestly and openly explore my spirituality.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad Skelton</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/11/24/icomleavwe-day-4/#comment-27586</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad Skelton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=3264#comment-27586</guid>
		<description>My trackback is above, but in case some of you missed it, if you&#039;re interested in this debate, you may like to read my two blog posts responding to this one over at Curious Dad (and Annie&#039;s reaction to them both):

http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/parenting/archive/2009/11/25/is-it-wrong-to-label-your-child-with-your-religion.aspx

http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/parenting/archive/2009/11/25/more-thoughts-on-religion-and-parenting.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My trackback is above, but in case some of you missed it, if you&#8217;re interested in this debate, you may like to read my two blog posts responding to this one over at Curious Dad (and Annie&#8217;s reaction to them both):</p>
<p><a href="http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/parenting/archive/2009/11/25/is-it-wrong-to-label-your-child-with-your-religion.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/parenting/archive/2009/11/25/is-it-wrong-to-label-your-child-with-your-religion.aspx</a></p>
<p><a href="http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/parenting/archive/2009/11/25/more-thoughts-on-religion-and-parenting.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/parenting/archive/2009/11/25/more-thoughts-on-religion-and-parenting.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: phdinparenting</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/11/24/icomleavwe-day-4/#comment-27582</link>
		<dc:creator>phdinparenting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=3264#comment-27582</guid>
		<description>Interesting thoughts Neil.

I am also all for protecting the rights of minorities. In fact, the school curriculum related to religion and ethics in our school system is based on that need in particular. The former curriculum was too heavily slanted towards the Roman Catholic majority where I live. The new curriculum recognizes the role the Roman Catholic Church has played in the history and traditions of our area, but celebrates the current multicultural and multi-religious context. I think by teaching the people from the majority heritage about minority heritage, we give those in the minority a better chance of being able to pass along and preserve their heritage rather than being assimilated or shunned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thoughts Neil.</p>
<p>I am also all for protecting the rights of minorities. In fact, the school curriculum related to religion and ethics in our school system is based on that need in particular. The former curriculum was too heavily slanted towards the Roman Catholic majority where I live. The new curriculum recognizes the role the Roman Catholic Church has played in the history and traditions of our area, but celebrates the current multicultural and multi-religious context. I think by teaching the people from the majority heritage about minority heritage, we give those in the minority a better chance of being able to pass along and preserve their heritage rather than being assimilated or shunned.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/11/24/icomleavwe-day-4/#comment-27581</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=3264#comment-27581</guid>
		<description>I think this is a fascinating discussion, and I agree with you in spirit.  My concern is the practicality.  Most of us, especially children, find it difficult to live in a way that it counter to the majority, established culture.  There is peer pressure and the constant need to be one of the crowd.   If all children are presented with all options, pretty much everyone will just choose the majority culture of the community.  In a place like Montana, why would anyone choose to be Jewish or Muslim or follow Native American customs or speak another language, with all the hardships it brings you by not being in the majority?  I present to you that true respect comes out of loving each other because of these differences.   This idea is of letting kids decide on their own is more appealing to the &quot;majority&quot; culture than a minority one, because they have less to lose.  Their culture is already the accepted one.   

But how can anyone pass down any minority heritage if the children are presented with all options?  

Of course, this doesn&#039;t mean that everyone should learn about other cultures and be respectful.  And it is each person&#039;s decision to choose their own path.  I&#039;m not an advocate of fanaticism or even religion.  There are so many influences on children -- from TV, from school, from friends -- none of them being shy about teaching their values, good or bad.  Why should parents opt out of the equation?  

Frankly, I don&#039;t see the world presented in this idealistic vision as a happy one.    In all practicality, when left to their own devices, 99% of everyone will just choose the common choice, the primary consumer or religious culture, and those with minority views will even be seen as odd ducks.  I am more for protecting the rights of minorities than advocating a boring world where everyone assimilates into a majority culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a fascinating discussion, and I agree with you in spirit.  My concern is the practicality.  Most of us, especially children, find it difficult to live in a way that it counter to the majority, established culture.  There is peer pressure and the constant need to be one of the crowd.   If all children are presented with all options, pretty much everyone will just choose the majority culture of the community.  In a place like Montana, why would anyone choose to be Jewish or Muslim or follow Native American customs or speak another language, with all the hardships it brings you by not being in the majority?  I present to you that true respect comes out of loving each other because of these differences.   This idea is of letting kids decide on their own is more appealing to the &#8220;majority&#8221; culture than a minority one, because they have less to lose.  Their culture is already the accepted one.   </p>
<p>But how can anyone pass down any minority heritage if the children are presented with all options?  </p>
<p>Of course, this doesn&#8217;t mean that everyone should learn about other cultures and be respectful.  And it is each person&#8217;s decision to choose their own path.  I&#8217;m not an advocate of fanaticism or even religion.  There are so many influences on children &#8212; from TV, from school, from friends &#8212; none of them being shy about teaching their values, good or bad.  Why should parents opt out of the equation?  </p>
<p>Frankly, I don&#8217;t see the world presented in this idealistic vision as a happy one.    In all practicality, when left to their own devices, 99% of everyone will just choose the common choice, the primary consumer or religious culture, and those with minority views will even be seen as odd ducks.  I am more for protecting the rights of minorities than advocating a boring world where everyone assimilates into a majority culture.</p>
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		<title>By: craphead</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/11/24/icomleavwe-day-4/#comment-27579</link>
		<dc:creator>craphead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=3264#comment-27579</guid>
		<description>My husband and I are both atheists, but we are not necessarily raising our children to be atheists. It is entirely up to them. I haven&#039;t even really mentioned to my 6 year old that I personally do not believe in god because I don&#039;t want to sway him. So, for us, I treat religious education the same way I treat sexual education (or anything else really since we unschool). I give information when asked or when the interest is obvious. Fortunately, my husband and I both took a few classes on religion in college and are well-read, so we can teach the kids the beliefs of many different religions if and when they are interested. I personally will not take them to church until they are older because I had a very, very bad experience going to church with a friend when I was young. Yet, I did take my little boy to a baptism when he was about 4 and I explained some things to him. Someday we might take them if they are interested, and we would take them to a variety of religious services.

This is a tricky issue. I think that it&#039;s very important for us not to label others as a religion and make judgments based on that. And yet I do think that religion is so much a part of some people&#039;s lives, families, and culture that it just doesn&#039;t make sense to NOT pass that along. And yet, it also seems that you can pass along those values without it being about the religion, but then supplying the religious reasons when asked. It also seems possible to be religious and share religion with our children, while not attaching too much importance to the label. 

I think that the labels themselves are not all that problematic, but the importance we (and I mean as a culture, as individuals, parents, etc.) attach to them is the problem. If I find out someone is religious and I assume I have nothing in common with them simply because of the label, then that&#039;s not right (and I&#039;m possibly missing out on a wonderful friendship). Of course, even if the labels aren&#039;t the problem, it does seem that the only way to disconnect labels and judgments is to get rid of the labels. I do understand that point of view. And I totally agree that this is true for all kinds of labels, not just for religion. I was the Smart one and my brother was the Athletic one and those labels were very, very limiting. 

I don&#039;t know.... these are just my initial thoughts on this. I know there are some religious families who would basically disown their children for choosing a different religion and that is a problem, too. So there are a lot of problems with labels, and yet I think that people can teach their children religion without it being limiting. So perhaps there just isn&#039;t one right answer to this? No one-size-fits-all way to deal with labels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My husband and I are both atheists, but we are not necessarily raising our children to be atheists. It is entirely up to them. I haven&#8217;t even really mentioned to my 6 year old that I personally do not believe in god because I don&#8217;t want to sway him. So, for us, I treat religious education the same way I treat sexual education (or anything else really since we unschool). I give information when asked or when the interest is obvious. Fortunately, my husband and I both took a few classes on religion in college and are well-read, so we can teach the kids the beliefs of many different religions if and when they are interested. I personally will not take them to church until they are older because I had a very, very bad experience going to church with a friend when I was young. Yet, I did take my little boy to a baptism when he was about 4 and I explained some things to him. Someday we might take them if they are interested, and we would take them to a variety of religious services.</p>
<p>This is a tricky issue. I think that it&#8217;s very important for us not to label others as a religion and make judgments based on that. And yet I do think that religion is so much a part of some people&#8217;s lives, families, and culture that it just doesn&#8217;t make sense to NOT pass that along. And yet, it also seems that you can pass along those values without it being about the religion, but then supplying the religious reasons when asked. It also seems possible to be religious and share religion with our children, while not attaching too much importance to the label. </p>
<p>I think that the labels themselves are not all that problematic, but the importance we (and I mean as a culture, as individuals, parents, etc.) attach to them is the problem. If I find out someone is religious and I assume I have nothing in common with them simply because of the label, then that&#8217;s not right (and I&#8217;m possibly missing out on a wonderful friendship). Of course, even if the labels aren&#8217;t the problem, it does seem that the only way to disconnect labels and judgments is to get rid of the labels. I do understand that point of view. And I totally agree that this is true for all kinds of labels, not just for religion. I was the Smart one and my brother was the Athletic one and those labels were very, very limiting. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know&#8230;. these are just my initial thoughts on this. I know there are some religious families who would basically disown their children for choosing a different religion and that is a problem, too. So there are a lot of problems with labels, and yet I think that people can teach their children religion without it being limiting. So perhaps there just isn&#8217;t one right answer to this? No one-size-fits-all way to deal with labels.</p>
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		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/11/24/icomleavwe-day-4/#comment-27571</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=3264#comment-27571</guid>
		<description>Thanks for coming by and commenting - and for the link!  I appreciate it :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for coming by and commenting &#8211; and for the link!  I appreciate it <img src='http://www.phdinparenting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Catherine</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/11/24/icomleavwe-day-4/#comment-27569</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=3264#comment-27569</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good analogy - food. So I guess my feeling is that, along those lines, one does well to &#039;feed&#039; their children what they think best, all the while ensuring that they&#039;re aware that there are other foods/cuisines out there, and that it&#039;s up to them to decide what they like best.

That said - the not telling kids what their religion is... I wonder if that could be confusing. Would you not tell your kids that they&#039;re Canadian? I mean, they can, after all, choose to leave Canada someday. If a child&#039;s family is, say, Jewish (and here&#039;s the other issue, when religion is also a matter of culture and heritage), why not acknowledge and celebrate that? They can still be made aware - as they mature and are able to understand these things - that they can forge their own path, spiritually. Why deprive a child of some key aspect of his identity v.v. his family? Or is it the idea that religion shouldn&#039;t be part of their identity? Being Catholic, being Christian, was part of my identity growing up - but it no more circumscribed the parameters of choice for me than did being Canadian, Anglo, a British Columbian, a &#039;Connors&#039;, what have you. Some aspects of that identity I abandoned, some I did not. Having had them attached to me at any point in my life did not chain me to them, and they were very important to my sense of self and family and community as I grew up, and I&#039;m grateful for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good analogy &#8211; food. So I guess my feeling is that, along those lines, one does well to &#8216;feed&#8217; their children what they think best, all the while ensuring that they&#8217;re aware that there are other foods/cuisines out there, and that it&#8217;s up to them to decide what they like best.</p>
<p>That said &#8211; the not telling kids what their religion is&#8230; I wonder if that could be confusing. Would you not tell your kids that they&#8217;re Canadian? I mean, they can, after all, choose to leave Canada someday. If a child&#8217;s family is, say, Jewish (and here&#8217;s the other issue, when religion is also a matter of culture and heritage), why not acknowledge and celebrate that? They can still be made aware &#8211; as they mature and are able to understand these things &#8211; that they can forge their own path, spiritually. Why deprive a child of some key aspect of his identity v.v. his family? Or is it the idea that religion shouldn&#8217;t be part of their identity? Being Catholic, being Christian, was part of my identity growing up &#8211; but it no more circumscribed the parameters of choice for me than did being Canadian, Anglo, a British Columbian, a &#8216;Connors&#8217;, what have you. Some aspects of that identity I abandoned, some I did not. Having had them attached to me at any point in my life did not chain me to them, and they were very important to my sense of self and family and community as I grew up, and I&#8217;m grateful for that.</p>
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		<title>By: phdinparenting</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/11/24/icomleavwe-day-4/#comment-27564</link>
		<dc:creator>phdinparenting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=3264#comment-27564</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing. I left a comment there about my experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing. I left a comment there about my experience.</p>
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		<title>By: phdinparenting</title>
		<link>http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/11/24/icomleavwe-day-4/#comment-27563</link>
		<dc:creator>phdinparenting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phdinparenting.com/?p=3264#comment-27563</guid>
		<description>I think there is a big difference between exposing your children to your faith and imposing your faith on your children. 

I could draw a parallel to food. I cook for my children and probably more often than not, I prepare foods that I like and that I think are good for them. However, I do not force them to eat those foods if they do not like them and I do give them opportunities to try food that I do not cook and do not like. 

So I am exposing them to my preferences and perhaps even educating them about why I think they are best, but I am not imposing my preferences on them. I will tell my son what my favourite food is and what my spiritual beliefs are. But I will not tell my son what his favourite food is and I will not tell him what his religion is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is a big difference between exposing your children to your faith and imposing your faith on your children. </p>
<p>I could draw a parallel to food. I cook for my children and probably more often than not, I prepare foods that I like and that I think are good for them. However, I do not force them to eat those foods if they do not like them and I do give them opportunities to try food that I do not cook and do not like. </p>
<p>So I am exposing them to my preferences and perhaps even educating them about why I think they are best, but I am not imposing my preferences on them. I will tell my son what my favourite food is and what my spiritual beliefs are. But I will not tell my son what his favourite food is and I will not tell him what his religion is.</p>
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