Comments on: School: Right or Duty? Anti-Homeschooling Law and Propaganda

By: Nia

Nia — Mon, 28 Jun 2010 01:48:35 +0000

I grew up in Germany and now live in the US. I think homeschooling should be legal as it is in the US. If you are concerned, put restrictions on it, curricula or something, like it is in most states anyways.
The whole thing originated during the Nazi reign and was kept in place later on to make sure to “democratize” all Germans in school. Good intentions often can have negative outcomes. I know of several religious groups in Southern Germany who just don’t believe in evolution or sex ed (I don’t agree with them, but it is their right to believe in what they want to), and they don’t want their kids in public school for that very reason. Not letting them homeschool is quite horrible in my eyes… But I’m also rather libertarian when it comes to parental rights.
The public school system overall in Germany does a lot better than what I have seen here in the US, however, as another person mentioned, parents have to get involved a lot. If your child attends Gymnasium (5-12th grade for a level students, requirement for college) chances are parents will have to help out a lot. Some kids won’t need help, most will. At that higher school a teacher will only explain once and then move on, as it is expected from those “smarter kids” to understand everything right away. It’s different at the Haupt or Realschule (5th-9th or 10th grade, prerequisite for apprenticeships). We have a whole bunch of different problems, especially because of the separation of the slower vs. faster learners after 4 years. Parental education highly determines where a kid ends up. Chances are, if your dad is a mine worker and your mom a housekeeper, even if you are really smart, you’ll end up in Hauptschule. It’s sad and nobody is really working on the issue. Oh well, I strayed from the topic.

By: phdinparenting

phdinparenting — Thu, 27 May 2010 07:49:53 +0000

I should also mention that the reason I have read in many places for the US not ratifying the Convention is that it believes it would take too many rights away from parents.

By: A “right and duty to learn?” » Smrt Lernins

A “right and duty to learn?” » Smrt Lernins — Wed, 26 May 2010 23:42:43 +0000

[...] lately. She currently lives in Germany, where homeschooling is illegal and children are under legal compulsion to attend public school. Today, she wrote a post about different schooling methods and how she views them through the lens [...]

By: Wendy Priesnitz

Wendy Priesnitz — Wed, 26 May 2010 12:49:07 +0000

No, I don’t feel attacked. I have been working in this field for 35 years, and I have seen the stereotypes you wrote about mentioned many times. I have taken it as part of my work to correct or challenge them. I do believe that your geographic location has very likely coloured your perception. Unfortunately, the fundamentalist Christian style of homeschooling is the one that many people see as representative of home-based learning. It isn’t.

I agree that it would be wonderful to see everyone work together to create a better way to educate our young people. We’ve published many articles to that end in our magazines Natural Life and Life Learning.

By: Wendy Priesnitz

Wendy Priesnitz — Wed, 26 May 2010 12:44:56 +0000

P.S. Great conversation! I will be taking a multi-day vacation beginning later today and plan to stay away from all electronics. So I won’t be able to participate much further for now, but I’d be happy to continue this at another time, on twitter, facebook, by email, or here.

By: Wendy Priesnitz

Wendy Priesnitz — Wed, 26 May 2010 12:42:27 +0000

I agree with your assumptions. Maybe this is one of semantics. I see the possibility of a publicly delivered education “system” that is free and open to all – like the present school systems around the world but different in that it is truly “open” and “free.” It doesn’t look like school in that it’s not coercive/compulsory, not age-segregated, not based on the filling up sausages, assembly line process we now have. Some kids might choose to congregate in buildings (think about our current growing network of democratic schools around the world, or the learning co-ops homeschoolers set up), some might learn at home (presumably with parental supervision if they’re young), some might be out in the community in apprenticeship types of arrangements, some might learn mostly on-line…and so on. Likely there would be a mix of situations.

We are moving in that direction. The barriers right now are the vested interests in testing, text books, standardized curriculum, and teacher unions, as well as adult desire to control kids and child/family-unfriendly workplace issues. But I think we’ll end up there anyway.

Schools do not currently educate in the way we want or need them to, or that we delude ourselves into thinking they do. We tinker with the model – more tests, more accountability, more $, more computers, lower student/teacher ratio, but that doesn’t work – even for those who only care about high test scores and turning out lots of people with degrees. Many kids don’t want to be there because they see it’s largely irrelevant. And some kids get really damaged. In short, lots of kids are not now “getting an education” in school as you seem to suggest. The emperor has no clothes on.

I guess we may never be able to deliver 100% education. We can force kids into school, like we do now, punish them/their parents if they refuse to attend, even medicate them for the damage done, but that doesn’t mean we’ve educated them.

What we can and must do is deliver access to an education, which is what you’re talking about. And maybe we can attract more kids and young people if we provide the opportunity to truly become educated.

By: Karin

Karin — Wed, 26 May 2010 09:02:48 +0000

I can see advantages and disadvantages in both home schooling and schools. Personally I would want my children to go to a _good_ school. But I fear there are lots of bad schools, considering especially my experience with Kindergarten and their non-existent knowledge of bonding and attachment parenting. Children are treated badly here.

Anyway, there is an online petition going on. They want the German government to allow home-schooling.
https://epetitionen.bundestag.de/index.php?action=petition;sa=details;petition=11495
The comments might be worth reading (it’s in German of course)

By: phdinparenting

phdinparenting — Wed, 26 May 2010 07:16:28 +0000

Wendy:

I understand what you are saying about the current school model being broken and about how life learning works. I completely agree about creating resources that attract people like libraries. However, I don’t think it answers my question. Or maybe it does and I’m just not seeing it. So I’ll ask another way. Perhaps my assumptions are different from yours too, so let me state them upfront before asking.

I assume:

1) All children have the right to an education
2) Not all parents are in a position to create that opportunity for their children, because they don’t want to or because they can’t (note: I’m not assuming here that the parents have to educate their children, but that they would have to create an environment where they can learn)

Given that scenario, how can we ensure that all children who have a right to an education, but whose parents are not willing or able to create that opportunity for them, will have access to an education. If it is not through a public school system (not necessarily the current public school system), what solution would you suggest?

By: Amber

Amber — Wed, 26 May 2010 04:49:38 +0000

While I believe strongly in the value of the public education system, I don’t think it should be compulsory. So this material you’ve re-printed definitely seems like a stretch. I have many home-schooling friends, and I would hardly consider them negligent. They’re making a conscious and considered choice, and doing the best they can for their children. Criminalizing that seems extreme.

By: Mandy

Mandy — Wed, 26 May 2010 01:41:57 +0000

Technically, you’re right, Ontario has the biggest basis of support for Christian based education (the Catholic Separate School Board), but the separate school system exists (using public funding) in Alberta and Saskatchewan as well. I erred in saying Canada had a nationally based separate school system. My apologies.

I clearly said that my opinion was based on observation and not research. It seems like you feel attacked and I’m sorry for that. I don’t think I ever claimed that there are not learning opportunities outside of school, nor that families should not take advantage of them. My “evidence” with regards to being exposed to limited ways of viewing the world, although I would again reiterate that I am offering an opinion and not research, is the very narrow (and frequently judgmental) view point with which many of the homeschooled students arrived in my classroom. Perhaps, being on the edge of BC’s Bible belt, the representative sample of homeschooled children I saw was a narrow one. Again, I am offering my perspective.

Ultimately, I would rather see people who are passionate about education work as a collective to improve the current system. I disagree with the assertion that the model is irrevocably broken.