Yesterday I read and commented on a post where a woman, mother, and published author was asking breastfeeding moms why they can’t cover up. She wanted to know why women can’t just be discreet. That led me to look up the word “discreet” in the dictionary and interestingly Merriam Webster says it means:
Having or showing discernment or good judgment in conduct and especially in speech: PRUDENT; especially: capable of preserving prudent silence.
According to that definition, it would seem that asking or telling someone to cover up is, in fact, indiscreet.
But is refusing to cover up indiscreet? I don’t think so. There is a wide range of opinions on what constitutes good judgment with regards to how women dress themselves and how much they should or should not cover up. Any time a woman is told to cover up or told to undress, I see that as an attack on her person. Telling women to cover up and telling women to strip down are frequently used tactics for oppressing women. There are both practical and philosophical reasons why no one other than the woman herself should decide how covered or uncovered to be. It is easier for onlookers to avert their eyes than it is for a woman to dress in a way that makes her feel uncomfortable.
When it comes to dressing, I think women should be able to choose from a wide variety of options. It should be up to them to decide how they feel comfortable.
Burka by niomix2008 on flickr
P1010131 by brookesb on flickr
Saturday Night Smile by LollyKnit on flickr
42-16939352 by gcoldironjr2003 on flickr
Paola by Gary Denness on flickr
19/03/07 by Sagrado Corazón on flickr
#4 rach in the rain by rachel sian on flickr
Leaning Back by Diana Blackwell on flickr
CLEAVAGE ON A LAZY AFTERNOON by fabiogis50 on flickr
Sesion Color by Master/Cyber on flickr
Sandra IMG_6836 by -Andrew- on flickr
Denim Skirts by Anita Robicheau on flickr
Hi mom! by Magdalena O! on flickr
365 day twenty-two: keep a light on by Foxtongue on flickr
When it comes to breastfeeding, I feel the same way. There is no one definition of how covered a woman should be. Some people think no skin should show at all. Others think anything goes. I don’t think it is the place of anyone other than the breastfeeding mother to decide whether or how much to cover.
Magical Milk Pic-O-the-Week on welcometomybrain.net
Magical Milk Pic-O-the-Week on welcometomybrain.net
Madeleine hides under the Bebe au Lait cover by freeformkatia on flickr
Jones Beach by Joe Shlabotnik on flickr
DSC_5552 by 150hp on flickr
080308VanSickler073 by littleREDelf on flickr
Mamella by Amadeu Sanz on flickr
purchased from istockphoto
sosta in paese by Matteo Bagnoli on flickr
at 2 years old...by @noborders on flickr
Bonding by Mike.Hanlon on flickr
Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but when it comes to dressing and breastfeeding, appropriateness should be decided by the woman herself. If other people don’t like it, they should discreetly avert their eyes.
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Lovely photos, and I totally agree with your sentiment.
Beautiful pictures. Loved this gallery
Beautiful pictures indeed, all of them! Funny how some of the non-nursing cleavage shots show more than many of the breastfeeding pictures. It IS a feminist issue–I’d no more tell a woman in a low-cut dress to cover up than I would a woman who was breastfeeding her child. Thanks for your thoughtful response to a controversy that shouldn’t be.
I know I occasionally disagree with your attitudes and opinions, but I thought this was a lovely way to get your point across. As a former whipper-outer, I salute you.
(Here’s my contribution to your whip it out gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/48538229@N00/5365276/ )
Nice. Very nice.
Beautiful!
I’ve gotta admit, I was most uncomfortable with the woman in the bikini. She was just so exposed, and it made me realize why I feel so uncomfortable in bikinis — cuz there’s nothing to ‘em! I feel like I’m in my underwear.
There’s a lot more exposed at the beach than there is when a mom is nursing her child, yet no one would dare tell a woman in a swimsuit at the beach to cover up. Except maybe if she was starting to get a bad sunburn
I agree with your thoughts completely, and I appreciate the irony of debating discretion. The most polite and gracious thing in any situation, of course, is to avoid passing judgment on others.
Well said!
I LOVE breastfeeding and am a huge supporter of it but I feel most comfortable using a nursing cover when in public. What hurts me the most is when someone thinks I’m doing breastfeeding a “disservice” by covering up. I’m nourishing my child in the best way possible, covered or not!
As an avid supporter of breastfeeding and trying to make it work anyway possible. As well as someone who covered in the early months and by 4-6 months found that it was not mutually acceptable to do so. Thus, I think no differently of someone who chooses to cover up while nursing in public. I don’t think it does a disservice at all, anyone with or without a child knows exactly what you are doing!
Oddly enough, I have actually found that when I am nursing my daughter in my Ergo, no one has any idea what we are doing – so go figure? I have had extensive conversations with male salespeople with my daughter attached to me – literally! They probably thought she was sleeping or just listening!
@maripoopoopoo
That reminds me of the time I was nursing my baby in our church nursery. hee hee A dad just walked in, the helper almost had a stroke (of course SHE knew I was nursing!) but the dad simply changed his babies diaper, talking to us the whole time… lol then walked out.
It honestly was a great way to ‘brag on’ breastfeeding.
Very, very cool. Creative way to get your point across.
Lovely post. It bothers me that so many women feel another woman using a nursing cover somehow degrades breastfeeding– or that people think breastfeeding should not be done in public under any amount of cover. Love your point of not judging.
@knoxvilledoula:
I believe every woman should do what makes her comfortable. However, I do wish that more women would breastfeed uncovered in order to normalize it. It is still seen as odd or inappropriate by too many people. So I do cringe a bit when I see a sea of nursing covers when I’m out. But if there were equal numbers of covered and uncovered, then I don’t think it would bother me at all.
I personally cover up when I’m out nursing just because I’ve got one of those kids that will pop off and stare at anyone or anyTHING interesting. I lovingly call her my Superdistractababy. I’m not hiding my nursing from the world, I’m making my life easier (and my nipples less sore from that 180 degree neck turn while still latched on – ouch!)
breastfeeding in public–with or without a cover–IS normalizing breastfeeding. for me, it all depends on what i’m wearing. if i can get my boob out without exposing my whole back/side/stomach, i don’t use a cover, but otherwise, i’m thankful for it.
having a cover (or scarf or wrap) has made me feel comfortable nursing in places i would otherwise excuse myself from–like church. i don’t miss out, and i hope, breastfeeding is seen as natural and normal–without my exposure distracting anyone from worship.
This is fantastic. I’ve been down in the dumps all day thinking about her post. You are reading my mind. Thank you for articulating it so beautifully.
Great post…for me I think the picture I had the most difficulty with is the first. Its hard for me to see wearing a burka as a choice that most women come to…for many it is not a choice, it is what they are born into. But, otherwise, in my opinion, spot on.
always a pleasure to read your voice.
Aren’t we all ‘born into’ the conventions of our society regarding how we dress? In that context, how is how we dress in Canada any more or less of a choice than wearing a burqa? Hope that’s not too big of a derail, Annie….
I think this can get way off topic, but how you dress, or don’t, in Canada while may be influenced by the society you are born into, is not tied to the suppression of woman’s rights and their being under the control of and subservient to men. I would not consider a burqa and a tshirt to be equal “choices”
They could be equal, though. We have to concede that there may be some women who are not coerced in the way you are talking about. I don’t know of any specific examples with the full burqa, but I do know many women who choose to wear hijab, and it is as fully their choice as it is mine to wear jeans. In any case, don’t want to derail any further, so I do agree with you, there are definitely issues around the wearing of the burqa, and the role of women in those societies – no question. I’m just wary of applying ‘western values’ to people outside of western culture.
women wear burqa in Canada, too. /derail.
@nicole – Yes they do, which is what I referenced below in response to a number of comments: http://www.phdinparenting.com/2010/01/27/covering-up-is-a-feminist-issue/#comment-35499
Excellant! I’ll retweet this and share on Facebook
Well put! As a mama who labored nearly topless and was asked if I’d be “more comfortable” buttoning my shirt, and a mama who was asked if I “asked if it would make [my] father uncomfortable” if I breastfed in the room, I appreciate your subtle yet clear message, and will be sharing this far and wide.
Beautiful photos, and great point, thank you. I would have some skepticism as to whether the woman in the burqa is choosing that because she really feels most comfortable in it, and if she does, I would have even more questions about WHY she feels most comfortable in it, mainly because I think it is pretty obvious that we need to relate to each other and that a big part of that is through body language and facial expression. Of course you could also debate how free the other choices are and probably in the end few such choices are really free, but still the absence of a possibility to communicate I do find a qualitative difference. Though even that photo is beautiful and has something mysterious.
According to a theory in the novel “Birds Without Wings”, the adoption of islamic headdress by women follows the economic principle of bad money driving out good, set out in Akerlof’s seminal paper on the market for lemons – the most beautiful women in traditional societies had to cover themselves because of the unwanted attention they got, especially where the parents considered they had the right/duty to arrange marriage, and didn’t want romantic sentiments getting in the way. It then became a badge of beauty because if it was veiled there had to be a reason for this, and so everyone had to cover up in order to claim their own beauty, in which remaining unveiled suggested a lack of confidence. I can imagine some objections to this theory, but it’s worth mentioning as placing the choice of dress in a cultural context in which it may also be liberating and affirmative, even if the context itself is patriarchal and cruel. Before we sanction individuals’ choice of dress, we should be careful not to condemn them simply for being born in the cultural context that they were, and assuming our own choices to be completely free and superior.
Having said that, I’m a man and whilst I endeavor to act with cultural sensitivity, political correctness is not my thing. So you can guess which photos I loved the most
Or rather you can guess which ones I found the most erotically appealing, which is surely also a conscious part of their choice. People (may and are entitled to) also feel comfortable being desired and to play with that in their daily choices according to the context and their mood. The breastfeeding photos, on the other hand, are very beautiful, but have no erotic charge at all, except the last which plays on both registers. They naturally elicit another reaction, more protective (although eros is also protective), and very warm and bonding – towards the woman, but also and especially towards the child. I think it is worth pointing this out. Perhaps, if I may put it so, there is a sacredness there that disactivates erotic response. It seems to me that the semiotics of eroticism and of other emotional responses to the human form is naturally very subtle, and only assumes crude and fetishistic proportions in response to crude conditioning. While we cannot safely abstract from that conditioning and ignore it, we should certainly not capitulate to it, and should (re)claim the semiotics of breastfeeding (and of infant nudity and other things) for what they truly represent in the minds of a healthy individual.
Very well done. The juxtaposition of the two sets of pictures really tells the story.
right on!!!!
Sean, that was splendid. My only question is why we must always separate the sacred and the erotic, although that’s mostly a separate topic in the history of religions. In this culture (Western, generally), eroticism is welcomed when it is subjected to manipulative commodification but shunned when it allows personal identification or actualization beyond very strict controls. The resulting neuroticism, both cultural and individual, plays out worst (and slightly differently) in the USA and Australia, where paternalistic and pseudo-religious moralism always has the upper hand.
That moralism, based in ignorant prejudice feeding the desire for social control, affects breastfeeding in the USA very negatively.
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An individual woman choosing to cover her breast(s) in breastfeeding may be both exercising good judgement and setting a less desirable example. The problem obviously comes when too many do it under cultural coercion. Massive re-education needs to change this.
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Meanwhile, thank you, PhD, for this column. One of your opening remarks reminds me of something I first saw in 1997: “If they can force you to keep it on, they can force you to take it off.”
That’s of course also true (at least as far as I am concerned). But it would take us too far off the theme. Plus I would have to think what it was I *exactly* meant by opposing these words in this context which would surely lead to a long discussion (or do I mean monologue? LOL). It’s of course also true that sex and babies are linked somehow…
I guess I just meant that, for me, the reverence due to nursing and new life is easy to access, obvious and overpowering enough to generate a feeling of sanctity and that (like many other spiritual experiences) this doesn’t pass through erotic arousal. Because of the relationship of libido to psyche, and because of our conditioning, the sacredness of what is erotic is much more problematic to access. This will not be changed by society quickly, but I think we can hope that there are enough voices to reject already, as Annie does, the fetishization of parts of the female body, especially when they are engaged in their primary function of nursing and giving life.
Anyway, my blog is there for that topic
I’m curious what you mean about Australia because that’s one place I’ve been where religion seems to have VERY little effect on people’s choices. From my own personal experience, I don’t know a single person there who would call themselves religious by any measure.
Australia was incredibly breastfeeding-friendly in my experience. The US could learn a thing or two from them.
I completely agree! The description of the word discreet is very interesting. Now that I see it really applies to speech it seems people are using the wrong word for wanting a nursing mom to cover up.
I have struggled with my preference to be covered when NIP (or to use a nursing room), because I know in my heart, the more people see nursing, the more normalized it will become (sad that it’s not already just the norm, but there you have it!) As a shy person who doesn’t like attention or to invite conflict for any reason, I did prefer to use a blanket (as long as my baby would allow it, which wasn’t long!), or wear a cardigan and a nursing tank. However, this in no way means I feel other moms should cover up or hide away, in fact I’m always happy to see moms breastfeeding out and about (and can’t say I have ever “seen” anything other than a baby’s head!) and wish I had felt more comfortable doing the same. It’s particularly refreshing to see nursing moms in malls etc., when it seems the majority of parents are bottlefeeding infants without so much as taking them out of the stroller
Thanks for this, Annie- I’m going to make a small edit to my 11 Tips to help new moms post from a couple of days ago. One of them is to help her drape a blanket over the baby without covering his face. I need to be more clear that this was my sister’s preference and comfort level, NOT because I think she should have. Breastfeeding mothers need 100% support in just that: what THEY and their child need. Not pressure from others to conform to *others’* needs.
Also don’t forget to mention:
*belly “bands” which cover “muffin top” many women make them out of cut up undershirts.
*layering with tank tops
*adding an unbuttoned shirt, or a jacket or shawl just to block the “side view”
And using wire and hem tape (or actual sewing) to make nursing covers. I think those “nursing tents” like the bebe au lait often go tooooooo far for some women. But the semi rigid part to help you see the baby and keep the fabric off baby’s face has a lot of merit. I’m not sure what type of wire would work best, it could also be plastic which would be more washable but not bendable. I think even a standard sized receiving blanket with something down one side to stiffen it would be enough for a lot of women to feel comfortable, particularly to start.
Also there’s got to be a way to layer swimwear. Personally I do not like pulling my whole breast out of the top of a shirt (which is why I dislike most nursing shirts) -I don’t care what others do obviously. But I’m thinking a tankini top over a one piece, or a bikini top under a one piece/tankini, or something so you could do the one layer up one layer down thing would work, but I need some mommas who own more than one swimsuit to test it out for me
You cannot be more of a feminist than I am, but I did ask a friend at a social activity to pull up her shirt. THere was so much cleavage, it looked like a butt-crack. It didn’t seem to be the look she was going for, bc she is (normally) a very conservative person…just that the shirt had shrunk or she had put on more weight since she last wore it. She didn’t mind at all.
Well friends are different.
You would tell her if she had spinach in her teeth right? So tell her if her outfit is awful. Of course you’re not going to dump her if she says “but I like it”.
I tell my sister off all the time for sticking her boobs in my face -because she doesn’t realize she’s doing it. Its fine with her family, and her friends that know her but its going to be a problem if she does it to say her boss. Or during an interview for university admissions!
So its fine, to tell people you know, that they look like an idiot. And strangers if they have food in their teeth, toilet paper on their shoe, or whatever.
The primary difficulty, I think (and as I’ve argued at length many times on my own blog), with people calling for nursing moms to cover up is that imposes a norm of shame on breastfeeding – it tells us, and the public, that breastfeeding is something that should be concealed, that is shameful. The protest, often heard, is that it’s not breastfeeding, but breasts, but as you show here, we accept the baring of breasts in all manner of contexts (low cut shirts, bikinis, etc). It’s the *nursing* that gets shamed, so the mothers, and so women more generally.
Thanks for this.
It’s fairly clear that it’s not so much the breast as the nipple. But you’re right about the norm of shame. Requiring things to be covered may also indicate reverence but always control — and here there’s no reverence, for women’s bodies have been deemed defective, abnormal, deviant, dirty, etc. for a few millennia at least.
The question of covering is covered (!) some at .
I’m not sure that it is just the nipple Paul. Women are frequently told to “cover up” while breastfeeding even if they are not showing any nipple and just showing some of their breast. I don’t need a cover to cover up the nipple – my baby’s lips/head do that.
I am by the way a bit astonished if this is the experience of Canadian women – in my experience with four children who were breastfed in Belgium it absolutely never happened, nor have I ever seen someone ask someone else in public to cover up. And that’s despite a lot of child-hostility. Certainly, people do it anyway out of a misplaced sense of shame, but actually telling someone to do it, I have never experienced. Still, if there is any stigma associated with it, then I think it relates to exposure and not nursing. I don’t believe nursing is ever stigmatized in a context in which exposure would be accepted. I think it only, at worst, inherits the shame generally associated with public nudity. But I would agree that in practice this exposes breastfeeding to shame and it may be well (for all I know) be an important factor in women’s decision whether to breastfeed or not.
I am a Canadian living in the US, and the ONLY place I have ever been asked to cover up or LEAVE while nursing was in Canada. Once in a pool in Regina, the other time asked to completely leave the premises (the dutiful employee telling me “the manager doesn’t allow ‘that’ in here”) in a office supply store in Virden, MB. I haven’t had opportunity to nurse in Europe but I always imagine that it is a more friendly place towards such things. I hope never to be proven wrong!
Let’s keep in mind Canada is a HUGE country -bigger than the US. There are a lot of regional differences.
I’m in Toronto and I’ve never been told to move/cover up. I have heard of a few, very few, women being asked that/told that and its always a shock to them because it “doesn’t happen”.
However there is a lot of hoopla in the last 4 years over nursing in pools and on the “deck”. One case just made it through the human rights tribunal and this was the basics of it was that the pool owner herself is a nursing mom and has no problem with women nursing anywhere BUT she has been begging for a clarification of the law regarding “food or drink” around the pool as it relates to nursing. She doesn’t want to tell women not to nurse -but she also very much doesn’t want to be fined or loose her license to run a pool for letting a woman nurse. Now the couple of women being kicked out of pools contextually makes more sense.
I don’t know what the Prairie provinces are like towards nursing but I know that I didn’t have any problem in Quebec, and I’ve never heard of anyone being harassed in the Atlantic provinces.
This is true. In British Columbia a woman has the legal right to walk about topless if she so chooses. They’re very focused on EQUAL rights. If a man can do it, why not a woman?
I am in the US, not Canada–but there is definitely an element of “that [breastfeeding] is disgusting” in addition to the “that [your breast] should not be out in public”. As others mentioned, a woman nursing, showing no more than a woman right next to her in a low-cut top will be approached but her companion simply showing cleavage minus the baby will not. I’ve also had conversations with several (educated) people who did not realize, I assume, that I breastfeed my children, and who told me that they find breastfeeding “gross” or what have you.
Yes, it’s *sometimes* the breast, because the association with uncovering any part of it is too strong for some; but it’s *always* the areola and nipple. Although there may be too much cleavage, etc. in some opinions, American society overall censors nipples, with many state and local laws on exposure being very clear about that.
As for the baby covering nipples, sure. But all babies have to latch and unlatch; some cannot stand coverings over their heads; some fuss even with coverings not over their heads; older ones often unlatch to look around; older ones may lift up their mothers’ shirts; women with larger breasts or areolas have a harder time hiding them; and so on.
This whole controversy should not even exist, and doesn’t in some societies. It’s paternalism at its worst, essentially blaming women for men’s potential bad actions and stigmatizing men too by assuming that, uncontrollably, they can’t distinguish between breastfeeding and sexual instigation, or can’t control their sexual urges in any situation.
Its not the nipple. Teens wear mesh tops with either no bra or a lacy bra underneath and you can see at least areola if not actual nipple
A sentence above lost its ending because I put angle brackets around a URL. Sorry. It should read:
“The question of covering is covered (!) some at http://www.topfree.ca.”
bravo! eloquent and beautiful post
Wow, I could not agree more. People act like its completly the mothers decision to cover up or not, but its also the child. My daughter was afraid of being covered up, what am I do to do? Have her scream and tear any cover off? Does that not bring more attention to the fact that someone breastfeeds? Now, she does not do that as much, but still prefers not to. And I totally agree, if we can see women prancing around in bikins, with their breasts hanging out, what is wrong with showing the breasts for one of their true purposes? That is how twisted our society can be.
I like your point that people are likely to have very different ideas of what “covered up” means. I had someone FREAK on me when my first was three weeks old, I was COMPLETELY covered by a blanket with only her feet sticking out. It messed me up for months and I planned outings around feedings so I didn’t have to struggle with latching her in public (big boobs, first time Mom) lest anyone have an issue with it. As time went on I found my comfort zone and stopped caring. Now I nurse anywhere, without a blanket but covered by my t-shirt and thankfully no one has said a word so far…but if they did, they’d be politely offered a blanket to cover their heads with.
Great Post, Annie. This obviously hit a nerve with me too, I posted my breastfeeding photos yesterday, and mentioned my confusion at the Christian community’s insistence that we must cover up lest it cause a man to stumble.
Steph
I’d love to find a picture of it (but I have a feeling that photographing it is considered “shameful”) but women who wear the whole “mesh even covering their eyes burkas” have slits and they also just “whip it out”.
I am very lucky to live in a place where women can wear what they want, and almost always, nurse where and how they want. (I am of course, excluding comments from in-laws and family which is a completely different issue). Someone challenged the government over the law that allowed men to be topless in public, and not women. They won -its not considered legal to have one rule for men and one for women. So women are allowed to be topless anywhere men are (ie not in stores, etc). The only part that is still sexist is that you can’t be “topless” for the purposes of “advertising” (commercials, printed ads, or walking out front of a business). “Topless” is defined as seeing the areola, as near as I have ever been able to tell from print ads. Though as near as I can tell airbrushing out the damn areola makes it ok.
I try to be fine with women nursing covered up, but when its not actually working I often feel like going up and saying “Would you just FEED the baby!”. Of course part of that is the hungry cry is about to make me need a new shirt =))
I have gotten lots of compliments for nursing while walking, a lot of moms struggle with that and are envious *lol*
I worry more about having my nice fat rolls covered up than the cleavage
Thus I love nursing tanks.
Once when C was under 1.5yo we were flying to visit relative. I had a nursing tank and a buttoned shirt on top with the first few buttons undone. No one said a thing. Once I latched C on and even raised the tank up to cover up more cleavage then the flight attendant offered me a blanket, “for my comfort”. I smiled back at her I told her, thanks but I am fine and kept on nursing. My lesson from this? You can show as much skin as you want, so long as there isn’t a child attached to your body. Sad, but true.
I loved Bella Bands for that purpose. I had them still from my pregnancy and they worked with whatever I was wearing on top.
It could just be that she was trying to be nice.
I know when I am at motherhood maternity and attempting to juggle a nursing 2 year old in my arms AND look at clothes the staff OFFER the change rooms. But its just that, an offer, they aren’t upset (or at least store policy says they aren’t allowed to be upset) with someone nursing either on the store or the change rooms -but it looks uncomfortable to be nursing one handed while looking at clothes.
As far as I know a blanket in “coach” is a special favour, its like extra peanuts.
Hahaha, Andy…this is so me! I do cover up, but not my breasts. I use a blanket around my waist! Hahaha. It covers the roll over my jeans! I could not care less who sees a breast with a baby attached, but yuck on my belly! So, it is all about what is comfortable. I guess I am more covered than some because I lift from the bottom up, but I would have a very hard time getting a breast out of the top of my tee shirts. I am completely in agreement that cover or not cover, just breastfeed. It is not the sight of ‘breasts’ that will make it normal…it is the reality that everywhere you go and babies and mothers are there…babies are breastfeeding! No one will care if we lift up or pull down, just that we are comfortable with the feeding of our babies with our breasts no matter how we do it. We have enough issues without making judgment of to cover or not to cover.
That’s been my experience. I haven’t been able to breastfeed yet – but when I see people complain about it, i’ve seen them complain about moms who are both covered AND uncovered. It seems to be the act itself that frequently bothers people. The visible breast is just an excuse. I don’t entirely understand WHY it bothers people – that makes no sense to me, but then the people who say “ewwww breast feeding” don’t make sense to me either…
Amen! Those pics are beautiful. How could anyone see “inappropriate” or “disgusting” in those pictures? I see beauty and nature at its finest. Love on film.
Thank you for this wide variety of lovely images. Before I became a mom 16 months ago I never really gave thought to any of this. I just didn’t realize the extent of the issue. I did know that I wanted to breastfeed, I had already given a lot of thought to that decision. It was later, when I was banished from the room every time I needed to breastfeed my son (self imposed-just based on a vague feeling that I wasn’t “supposed” to stay) that I really started to feel isolated and cut off from the world. And when my Mother-in-Law brought over a HUGE cover she’d made, it just felt so oppressive to me. Especially when I was in my own house. If she was visting and and I said “Oh, the baby is hungry” she would rummage around and find that cover and hand it to me. I started to feel really lonely. I know my story is not at all unique, but I say it because this is a large component of many mother’s decision not to breastfeed-because it is made to feel like such a shameful and limiting thing and that so much of your life and self must be sacrificed in order to do it.
I think that is why many women wean their babies very early. And often its mostly just their family that make them feel that way, which is sad.
I nurse anywhere, any time, and it doesn’t bother me. (Well ok the park when it was -20C and the very male music gear store were a little weird). But its the ILs that dislike me nursing. They would leave if they were at my house. They were constantly asking me to put the baby on a schedule so the baby wouldn’t nurse when they were here (but of course what never occurred to them was that the baby nursed BECAUSE they were here and baby didn’t like being away from mommy and with the weirdos). Also I dislike nursing in front of my FIL because he is a butt/boob grabbing alcoholic asshole with all the usual “when’s my turn” like comments.
On of my uncle’s family is worse than what you describe. I’m not kidding when I say to nurse in their house you have to use a cover AND be in a room with a closed door. They also “couldn’t” be in the delivery room when their teenaged daughter had a very premature baby (28ish weeks). Luckily my aunt (and theirs) was there and luckily she came by my aunt’s house a lot. My family has no problem with nursing. My aunt even nursed past one year. Although my mom does sometimes make “comments” about my 3 year old still nursing “on demand” and my grandmother wasn’t that comfortable with nursing during pregnancy. But my mom always makes “comments” about things, and they are never consistent. One day she likes my parenting and my kids are angels, the next I need to lay down the law my kids are demons (and she doesn’t even necessarily have to have seen them to switch).
There are quite a few studies that show family support, and in particular husbands, are key to how long women nurse. Of course there are plenty of women that ignore all the lack of support and go on and nurse anyway. But it is far easier if you at least have some friends on your side and hopefully a husband that backs you up whether he really agrees or not.
What beautiful photos. I loved the message, though I agreed with some of the other posters that in the first series, both the burka and some of the more exposed pics at the very end did make me feel uneasy – I find it hard to say that women who cover THAT much or expose THAT much are ever doing it totally because it makes them feel comfortable, not because on some level they are trying to please men around them or subscribing to male objectification of women.
On the other hand, the extremely exposed breastfeeding pictures didn’t bother me at all, since it was obvious there that the woman was exposing herself not to please men or become a sexual object but rather to make breastfeeding easier, allow skin-to-skin contact, etc.
Interesting discussion.
A number of you have noted that while you agree with the message, some of the pictures made you uncomfortable or you found it difficult to believe that women would choose to dress that way. Some of you questioned or asked to what extent appropriateness is determined by our social/cultural context.
I think what we are comfortable with as women is shaped by our cultural context. I don’t think that is wrong. It just is what it is. However, if a woman, within a specific culture feels like stepping outside of the boundaries of what makes the majority of other women comfortable, I think it should be her choice to do so.
Personally, I could never wear a burka. I would not be comfortable. But I have read about and heard of educated women in Canada who will state emphatically that it is their choice to wear a burka. Yes, they may be influenced by their upbringing and religion, but as long as they truly feel it is their choice, I don’t think it is my place to criticize that.
For me personally, I was not uncomfortable with the bikini shot at all. In fact, when I am happy with my body, I do wear a bikini. I even posted a picture here on my blog. I also wore a bikini almost every day during the third trimester of my first pregnancy, because we live on a lake and it was very hot outside. I have also sunbathed topless in Europe and felt completely comfortable doing it, whereas going completely naked in the saunas and baths in Europe (which I did) tested the boundaries of what I am comfortable with (both for myself and in terms of what I was seeing).
All that to say, culture and society does impact what each of us is comfortable doing. However, my main point is that my comfort level does not give me the right to dictate what someone else does or doesn’t do.
Well said. I could not agree more!
I think, if it wouldn’t draw even more attention, and if it weren’t for the religious connotations to it (I certainly wouldn’t want to be offensive to anyone) that there are days and situations where I would wear a burka. I think in some ways it would be liberating to not be judged on your looks, and to not be judged on your ability to look someone directly in the eye.
I think for many women it would be freeing, if there weren’t the religious connotations. We are taught to be polite and not to “threaten” men -not to “emasculate them”, not to take their power away.
Its the same reason many people wear mirrored glasses, even on the subway/underground/metro where they are clearly not needed. But my manners won’t allow me to wear sunglasses (or hats) indoors *lol*.
I too have gone around topless, though not on crowded beaches. But its legal here and I’ve done it. I also walk around the house in various states of address and don’t really care if people see. Its my damn house, don’t look in my windows if you don’t like it.
The women I have seen wearing burkas, including the ones covering the eyes, seem very empowered, very confident. And very fun. There was a group of about 8 women in burkas with 4 kids under 6 at the park. On of the women was clearly a grandmother if not great-grandmother. But women had a blast. They played tag both with the kids and on their own. They went down the slides, played on the climbers, etc both with and without the kids. And I know that many “Canadian” parents give other parents strange looks when they go down the slides, or swing, or really play with or without the kids. Its very strange.
But I think there is something powerful in the burkas, even the ones that cover even the eyes. And inasmuch as there is “men’s” jobs/work/position/duty there is also “women’s” jobs/work/position/duty. And each side is very powerful and within each side members are allowed their own power. In many ways, excluding some of the fringe groups, men and women do have “separate but equal” roles, which is certainly a kind of feminism. Yes of course I believe women can be doctors, lawyers, presidents, and whatever. And men can be midwives, nurses, childcare providers, etc. But when, in my eyes, some feminists go wrong is when they confuse “equal” with “the same”.
Beautiful.
Beautifully said. And I just have to say that some of those first photos show more skin then the moms who are breastfeeding without a cover. I am not saying I have a problem with that just that it is ridiculous that one is acceptable and not the other. I am sure this point has been made too many times to count but it still irks me.
@Upstatemomof3: My point was to show the full array, from completely covered to completely uncovered, in both dress and breastfeeding. What is “appropriate” is not as narrow as people may think.
Lovely photo compilation, and great post.
Annie, you are my hero. This is completely wonderful.
When will feminism begin to take these issues seriously?
Side note, it is my understanding (as a previous commenter mentioned) that exposing a breast from within a burka in order to feed a baby is a non-issue. I was once told by a middle eastern acquaintance that burkas are even designed with vertical slits to accommodate nursing mothers, though I have never seen this in order to be able to confirm it myself.
I suppose the good news is that cultural prejudices *can* be overcome.
Nice work!
For me it totally depends on circumstances. I have no problem feeding anywhere and anytime, but there is a certain group of purely male friends that I love to bits, but whenever I’m around them, I can’t feed! It’s strange! Because my other male friends who have partners I have no problem feeding around. I don’t really give people a choice, to be honest! But then it’s as you say… what I am comfortable with!
“Any time a woman is told to cover up or told to undress, I see that as an attack on her person. Telling women to cover up and telling women to strip down are frequently used tactics for oppressing women. There are both practical and philosophical reasons why no one other than the woman herself should decide how covered or uncovered to be. ”
I’ve never thought of this issue in quite those terms, and honestly now that you bring it up I could not agree more. I also agree 100% with the comment you wrote above. It should be the WOMAN’s choice how covered up she wants to be. It’s NO ONE ELSE’s business to decide for her.
I am saving this blog post for future reference and sharing. Thank you so much for writing it. =)
@mightymarce
But we’re all ok with telling teenaged boys to pull up their pants, right?
*very tongue-in-cheek*
It’s interesting to note that in some cultures that expect women to generally cover their bodies, the breasts are not considered to be a problem when they’re showing because they give life to the future of the people…..
I think your point about telling women how to dress is a form of control… I completely agree.
I posted on one of my sites recently on this topic also. Keeping things covered really isn’t just the mom’s decision. It’s the baby’s also, and I’m dealing with that rather intensely just now with my baby, who is just about to turn one.
Breastfeeding is pretty much an athletic event to her, she’s all over the place. And if there are other people around she’ll constantly pop off to smile at them. “Discretion” isn’t going to happen with her if I nurse in public. But that’s not a problem to me. If she needs feeding, I’ll feed her. A quiet room is advantageous if available, but that’s all it is to me. I much more often just stay where I am and do my best. Family and friends are just used to it.
I agree, this is a great article!
I have a personal quirk – I tend to be more modest when I’m around people I know. If I’m in a public place with strangers around, I don’t care as much who sees what, but if I were around male friends whom I would see all the time for example, I wouldn’t be so quick to whip it out. Anyone else like that or is it just me?
Wonderful article! It should be published on the front page of every major news publication. Thanks for sharing.
First, I totally agree. Not just about breastfeeding, and not just for women, though this is clearly an issue that is of particular importance to women, and breastfeeding mothers among them.
Now, at the risk of being stabbed with a thousand feminist blades for asking, I have a question. Is it OK to look?
I’m not offended by naked breasts. I like naked breasts. I like looking at them. I also like touching them, but that, clearly, is inappropriate except by invitation, and not what this post is about. So, I wonder, if we all agree each person should decide how much of themselves to display to the world, does that mean we (the world) are free to look at what they decide to show?
@Michael:
From my perspective, it is okay to look, but rude to ogle. Just because something is visible, doesn’t mean it is okay to stare. If I had a mole, a tattoo, painted toenails, a birth mark, or any other distinguishing feature, I would be okay with you looking at it, but would be put off if you did nothing but stare at it the whole time instead of looking me in the eye when we were talking.
I feel the same way. Looking is fine. Staring, under any circumstance, breastfeeding or not, is just rude.
Thanks for the replies. It seems the rule of thumb is essentially no different from any other circumstance, which makes sense and makes it rather easier to manage. I suppose one of the central points of this discussion is there should be no double standards, either for those deciding what they are comfortable showing the world, or for those of us who happen to observe them. Dress to be comfortable. Look, don’t stare. Got it.
It’s ok to look – not ok to get so close that I can feel your breath on my areola and not to stare so long that I looking at your face while you are looking at my boobies. Also, no touching the baby’s head.
Thanks for posting this Annie – I talk to many first time moms who feel that they ‘ought to’ cover up. It’s ok with me – but I think it’s also important for those of us whose personal modesty doesn’t require that to be open:
1. women can feel free to do what’s right for them: I’ve had several encounters where women told me that seeing me breastfeeding my baby/toddler made them feel like they could do it too. I certainly felt that way early on.
2. everyone can see babies actually breastfeeding – we’ll never have the changes we need to make breastfeeding the norm if most people never actually see it happening (though I kind of like those big loud nursing covers for that too!)
Thanks – an insightful perspective as always!
Yes! Look! And then smile! A remark validating the child’s cuteness never hurts either.
Yes! I absolutely 100% agree. I breastfed my son until he was over two years old. At first, I was uncomfortable feeding him in public and would cover up. However as he got older and I got more comfortable, using a blanket just didn’t work or seem necessary. He would often pull it off anyway leaving me fumbling and showing more than had we not used it in the first place. Eventually I became more comfortable with my own body and nursing skills and no longer felt the need to cover up. If/When we have another, the world better watch out… or, I mean, discreetly avert their eyes.
-Abby
I notice that the breastfeeding pics are all of relatively young babies…lets not forget about nursing toddlers or preschoolers. If you really want to challenge people’s assumptions and feelings about nursing– whether in public or in private– ask them how they feel about seeing a mother nurse a child older than about 18 months in public. It seems that even some avid feminists and supporters of breastfeeding feel some discomfort at the notion of a “child” rather than a “baby” being nursed in a public space.
@apprenticemom:
I agree that we need more women with toddlers and preschoolers to breastfeed in public in order for it to be normalized and accepted too. In choosing these pics, I was focused on getting the right progression of completely covered to completely uncovered and also having some ethnic diversity and I didn’t focus explicitly on the ages of the children being nursed. That said, the second to last one is listed as being a two year old and I have posted pictures in the past of me nursing my two year old.
Covering up never seemed necessary or convenient to me, nor did I feel my daughter would care to be covered in a towel or blanket or whatever while trying to eat. I have always been happy to nurse wherever, whenever and wouldn’t dream of asking someone to leave so I might have privacy. They are always, however, welcome to do so if *they* feel uncomfortable ; )
I respectfully disagree with this. There are rules and laws that prohibit what is viewed as public indecency. I would prefer a woman with exposed breasts or genitalia to cover them, for the same reason I would expect it of a man with exposed genitalia. It’s simply not appropriate in public environments. As a parent who would prefer not expose his 8 year old boy to nude breasts and genitalia, I think it’s reasonable to request people abide by the same standards that Cinemax does before 9pm.
I’d like to stress. I have no problem with the act, or even the act in public. What I do have a problem with, is my child seeing a bare breast on the subway or in a restaurant. As a parent, I feel I should be able to take him in public without exposing him to such things. And I don’t even ask for that much. Most of the women in the above photos are perfectly fine. I would only find two of the last three questionable.
Yes, people have rights to their body, just as people have rights to speech. But you can’t broadcast certain things. You put penthouse on the Jumbotron at Dodger Stadium, there will be issues. You yell fire in a crowded theater, there will be issues. “averting your eyes” and “not listening” only go so far. Your rights end where the rights of others begin.
@Thomas:
I can understand people not wanting their children to see sexualized images (e.g. Penthouse) in public, but breastfeeding is certainly not sexual and neither is the simple act of being topless. As a parent, I would like my children to be exposed to breasts being used to feed a child before they are exposed to them in a centrefold. But if we tell moms they have to “cover up”, then that is unlikely to happen and it only serves to perpetuate the myth that breasts are primarily or only for men’s pleasure.
With regards to rights, there is no right to never be uncomfortable. I don’t find man boobs particularly attractive, but for some reason men feel they have the right to walk around topless. I would not equate breasts with genitalia and I do think that if men have the right to walk around topless, women deserve that right too. Thankfully in some jurisdictions, like Ontario and New York, that right does exist. Thankfully, in many jurisdictions where it is not okay to walk around topless, women are explicitly allowed to expose a breast for the purposes of breastfeeding.
My concern isn’t with “sexualized images”. I’d really prefer you not misstate my point. It’s with partial or total nudity in public. I prefer to have a handle on the rate at which my baby boy grows up. I prefer the discussions as to what these things mean to come at my pace.
If some of you would prefer to parent your children differently, that’s your right. As it is my right to parent mine.
You’re right that there’s a double standard on the liberties afforded to male and female breasts. It exists for the same reason you won’t see a male topless bar. Because topless for males doesn’t have a socially-imparted meaning. It does for females. I am not opposed to changing that one way or the other. But such change must be ethical, and legal, and, for those truly wishing discretion, with courtesy and respect to differing views… Not attacks on them as sexists, which I’ve already received for my initial post, which I feel was quite respectful to the opposition.
For any discussion to be truly open-minded, the feelings, beliefs, and opinions of others must be respected, even if they are not agreed with.
Naked is just naked. Do you mean to tell us that your son doesn’t see his mother topless, ever? What if he had a much older sister, would it be offensive to see her breasts. Naked is just naked, and breasts are just fat, skin, and nipples. They aren’t “grown up” things.
Do you object if a female baby has her diaper changed “in public”. For example at a park with no bathrooms? I mean you could see her labia and who knows what else.
Actually where I live there ARE male topless bars (both for straight females and for gay men) because a hot guy with his shirt off is “hot” particularly in context. (for example if the man in question is in a cage with a bubble machine and his chest is oiled… I’m just saying)
Seeing people “make out” in public is more “adult” than seeing a breast or nipple whether its nursing or not.
My 8 year old boy doesn’t blink an eye at the sight of a breastfeeding woman, because he knows that is normal. Breasts as a sexual thing hasn’t even occured to him yet. If an 8 yr old boy sees a woman’s breast in the act of breastfeeding, you simply say “that woman is feeding her child” and keep walking. They are not something to protect children from, in that context.
If we are going to allow parents to decide which body parts are to be sexual in which contexts, and ask women to cover, does that mean that a Muslim man could tell me to cover my ankles, as he would really like to keep his son pure until a later age? It’s really not that big a deal for me to cover my ankles, is it? I could just do it to be polite to the views of others, right? Or is there a bigger issue there?
Completely agree. My sons have certainly seen enough of my breasts, considering the older was bf until 2.5, and now at 5, frequently sees me nursing his now 2 year old brother (who obviously sees them too LOL). It is completely normal and natural to them, and frankly, I’m proud that they are “growing up” knowing what breasts are actually for. And definitely preferable to them being bombarded with sexualized images of women (clothed or not) on billboards, magazines, TV…
Are you raising your child to be intolerant and unjustly discriminatory towards women? Are you telling him that women’s breasts have to be hidden because you think they’ll cause sexual public disorder every time a woman exercises her right to be without a top? That you blame women for this fanciful projection?
“It’s simply not appropriate in public environments”: most American states and Canadian provinces disagree with you. You suggest that your discomfort should be universal, and that it has the power to curtail others’ rights.
As for: “Your rights end where the rights of others begin.” Where does that come from? It has no legal or human rights standing. People who say it think it’s fine for them but not for others, which is a very basic logical and moral contradiction.
In most places in North America a woman has the right to breastfeed in public and take her top off to do it if she wants to. You’re right that averting eyes goes only so far, but that distance includes the present case.
Your rights end where the rights of others begin. This does have legal precedent. Don’t believe me? Use your Constitutionally protected right to freedom of speech to enter a crowded theater and yell “Fire”. It’s against the law. Why? Because endangering the life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness of another is a violation of their rights. And that’s exactly where yours ends.
It has a lot of legal and human rights standing. You cannot use your rights to violate the rights of others.
While some may hold the OPINION that breast feeding is a beautiful act, it is just that. Opinion. I can consider urination a beautiful thing. Doesn’t mean I won’t get arrested for whippin’ it out in public.
Personally? I find topless men distasteful too. But it’s legal. There’s no legal justification for me to say otherwise. There is here.
If you have an issue with the law of the land, then campaign to change it. Raise awareness through positive reinforcement of your message.
But screaming from the rooftops that anyone who disagrees is a sexist pig, and is raising their children to be the same? Is hardly a way to engender any form of respect, support, or discussion.
It’s an excellent way, however, to create an intractable opposition to the very thing you’re trying to progress. So, I ask you, are you interested in change? Or are you just here to vent at all the ‘sexist pigs’?
@Thomas: I still don’t understand which *legal* right of yours I am violating when practicing my *legal* right to breastfeed in public.
I’ve stated previously, PHD… I have no problem with breastfeeding, in public or otherwise. What I do have a problem with is frontal nudity. If you disagree with laws in place on that, campaign to change them. But don’t support posters above who call concerned parents sexist, simply for disagreeing with their view.
@Thomas Good luck with the discussions with your son, coming at your pace – unless you live in a bubble. What is inappropriate about breasts doing what they were biologically meant to do and either ignoring it or taking the opportunity to teach your child? It is only that you (and others) are sexualizing breasts and that this your own issue, biologically female breasts are meant to provide nourishment to a child.
And biologically, a penis is meant to dispose of waste and assist in reproduction. Should we, therefore, support males in their ability to go to wal-mart flapping in the breeze? Things all sound so clean when you refer to things biologically. Clinically.
When you step outside, and see what things actually are? Go ahead. Do a google search on “breast”, “boob”, and “tit”. With the possible exception on the last term for a rather cute type of avian, look at your results and tell me that breasts don’t have a strong sexual impact in society.
And tell me that it’s not my right as a parent to speak my mind for moderation on how much of that I expose my child to. When I can perform said google search and get a top list of doctors and health articles? Then I’ll accept your clinical evaluation. Until then? It’s gotta factor the social climate.
Have all the men’s bathrooms changed in the last decade? I seem to recall that most men’s bathrooms do have men “flapping in the breeze”. How will you stop your son, or daughter if she is too young to go to the bathroom alone, from seeing penises?
Also should sandals be banned because some people find feet erotic. Some people have foot fetishes to the point that they get an uncontrolled erection if they view someone’s feet.
@Thomas: The laws where I live are fair and fine, so I’m good!
These laws, you mean. Right? Because if you want to claim that there are no double standards in your legal system, then I’ll claim that no human wrote them.
Most people, however, are fine, so long as they’re not the ones being affected. You want to know where I campaign on oppression? I look at China and Tibet. Or China’s detainments and beatings for those of a non-state religion. Or any third world country where men with guns can shoot the poor, and the poor must thank them, and buy the very food donated by humanitarian efforts from their murderers.
That’s where I look when I want to combat oppression. As long as that exists in the world? I’m not “good”.
There are plenty of issues in our legal system (my partner is doing his PhD in law, so I’m well aware of many of them via his work), but I meant the laws regarding equality in the right to go topless are fair and fine.
Oddly enough, ask the average white male in the US 150 years ago what he thought about the laws he had in place? He’d say the same thing.
In other words, satisfaction with the laws does not mean they are fair. Only that you believe them to be.
Ah, the old “well things are worse elsewhere, therefore your issue is unimportant” argument. Logical fallacy.
Thomas, your right to find breastfeeding distasteful or immodest (when it is neither) does not curtail the child’s basic human right to food, and the mother’s legal right to give her child food.
You say you are concerned with your son seeing breasts or parts of breasts, while used for feeding a child, and you compare it to broadcasting pornography at a sorting event. Can you not see how big a difference there is?
I do NOT mind my sons seeing breasts used for their God-given purpose of feeding babies, in fact I vastly prefer them to grow up viewing that as natural and normal than any alternative (seeing women as sexual objects, or seeing any exposure of the breast for any purpose as evil, for example). You do have a right to raise your child as you see fit. I hope you will raise him to be considerate of others, especially newborn babes and infants, as Scripture explicitly states, and the law of the land commands.
I’ve stated this a dozen times, and it seems I’ll have to state it again. Kat, I do not disapprove of breast feeding, public or otherwise. Children need to eat. What I disapprove of is the exposure and nudity. I’ve said this several, several times, and people continue to ignore it. Whether it’s because you haven’t read this view (my first post, 2nd paragraph, first two sentences, “I’d like to stress. I have no problem with the act, or even the act in public.”), of because you’re willfully disregarding it, so as to pigeonhole me in the stereotype you may have of people who disagree? I don’t know. I can’t really speculate.
But my issue with this? Begins and ends with public nudity. That’s all. And it is possible to nourish a child healthily while maintaining that. So, by that standard, your argument holds no water, as I am not opposing the feeding of babies.
The problem with your argument Thomas is that in most cases it is nearly impossible to breastfeed a child in public (which you say is ok) without a split second of partial or frontal nudity in many cases, so while you pretend to be logical and reasonable, you are consistently contradicting yourself and, in effect, “yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded theater”. You yourself are misinterpreted or misstating people’s responses to you (eg annie’s response that the “laws were good” was clearly in reference to laws regarding being topless yet you acted as though she was referring to any and all laws of the land). Teaching that there is nothing inappropriate about what is “visible” with breastfeeding might help combat the sexualization of breasts that you bring up regarding google searches.
People also consider reading a book without arms ‘nearly impossible’. I’ve seen both done. You’d be amazed at what a bit of practice can do.
I was not misinterpreting annie’s “Laws are good”. I was placing it in perspective. I was showing an unfortunate tendency for people to care only about the injustices that they perceive are being visited upon them/people like them.
Look up oppression. The word is commonly used in reference to events such as Germans and Jews, Romans and Christians, Wiccans and Salem, Massechusetts, Tibet and China. Think about whether these injustices are in that league before labeling it as oppression. It’s a strong word, with a strong history.
I absolutely agree, on the other hand, and support, any effort to desexualize the female breast. For two things to be treated equally, they must BE equal. Male and female breasts are not, due to disparate social treatment. Correct that view? You remove the opposition. Teaching that there’s nothing inappropriate about breastfeeding will further that. However, as long as that view persists, I cannot, and will not, support any form of nudity in public. This is not restricted to breastfeeding, but I’m not about to issue a free pass to it either.
In my opinion? Movies such as “Me, Myself, and Irene” do more damage to that goal than any, with scenes that take breastfeeding, and turn it into something sexual.
It may be “possible” to nurse without seeing any nipple, but its not consistently probable.
Any more than its 100% guaranteed that if you wear a bikini top down a waterslide you won’t “pop out”, or a tube top while running. Nor is it possible for a man to guarantee that if he wears a very small bathingsuit nothing will pop out. In fact my poor husband was at the park and he crouched down and his pants split wide open and he was wearing boxers that tended to “gape” in the front. Poor man. I don’t see him getting charged with public indecency (or worse) even though a few of the kids got a glimpse.
And as many people have pointed out many places in the US and Canada women are legally allowed to go fully topless, should they choose to.
How much practice have you had at breastfeeding? Then don’t lecture on what is possible or not while breastfeeding.
You are still doing the same things I mentioned in my previous post. I’m sure Annie didn’t need you to put things in perspective for her or anyone else on here.
I’m amazed that you continue to go on about oppression (and continuing your arrogant comments by telling me to look it up) given your arguments here.
There were no Wiccans at the time of the Salem Witch Trials.
Back on topic, it seems that you are trying to back up your opinion on public “nudity” by saying that the law is on your side. However, as stated elsewhere in this thread, there are several places where it’s legal for a woman to be bare-breasted in public. Austin, TX and New York City are two that I know of in the United States. Just so I’m clear, if your son sees a woman’s breasts in Austin, is it okay because it’s legal there? But not okay if it happens in Dallas, where it’s not?
Well, I guess we’re good then, because I have never been nude in public while breastfeeding my child! And neither has any other woman I have ever met who was breastfeeding in public.
As breasfeeding is not nudity, indecency, or immodesty, and you have already stated you don’t have a problem with the act of breastfeeding, any further objection must be to something else entirely then.
@Thomas:
“…the American obsession with breasts has consequences most Americans fail to consider: ready access to human milk is vital to babies’ short- and long-term health. We are all affected by our culture’s sexual emphasis on breasts and our consequent discomfort with breastfeeding in public. While people from other cultures often find this controversy inexplicable, the reasons for the controversy are obvious to Americans – even those of us who fully support breastfeeding in public. We understand that many equate public breastfeeding with lewd behavior. However, equating breastfeeding with vulgarity has dire consequences; this attitude lowers the country’s breastfeeding rates which in turn affects women’s and children’s short and long-term health. If women are made to feel uncomfortable with public breastfeeding, breastfeeding becomes difficult, if not impossible, to sustain. Women who have successfully breastfed for long periods of time know that unless women can feed their babies anytime, anywhere, they’re going to end up housebound. And it’s the rare American woman who is willing to be housebound for months on end. So, many women give up breastfeeding early on and opt for the bottle.”
Please reconsider your opinion. Any attitude or cultural taboo that harms babies should be thrown into history’s dustbin– not defended.
Whoops I forgot to post the link for that quote:
http://www.internationalbreastfeedingjournal.com/content/3/1/11
Thomas, It is also your duty to educate your child on breastfeeding. By pretending it doesn’t happen and hiding them form your son, you aree seuxalizing them. Breast aren’t genitals at all. They serve one purpose only, to fed a child. I’ve nursed in front of children from all ages, they harrdly noticed because they were educated on it. They knew what was going on, it was normal to them. My son will be 3 soon and i could care less if he saw a woman breastfeding. It’s my duty to educate him and hope he views the nursing mother as just that. Not something to hide. You are comapring breastfeeding and using the breast in it’s appropriate manner to genitals. When in fact, you viewing it as “genitals” is inappropriate. Fortunately, there are laws to protect breastfeeding. Breastfeeding in public, covered or uncovered is not against the law.
I’m replying to several of your comments at once.
Any comparisons to penises completely miss the point. A penis is a sexual organ. With perhaps the exception of the 1960s in the west and certain very small subcultures, sex is a private act. For hygienic reasons, defecating is also generally a private act as well. Eating is not.
Yes, rights end where another’s begin–but you have no right to “not be offended” by the sight of someone breastfeeding. Just as you have no right to “not be offended by the sight” of an interracial couple holding hands.
The laws in many cases do distinguish between public obscenity and breastfeeding and are correct to do so.
I have yet to see, or even hear of, a woman stripping down, waving around her breasts, and screaming “I’m about to breastfeed! You must look at me!” However, a nipple might occasionally be visible. That’s not intentional, that’s just how it works.
To quibble and say it is only okay if it meets your standard of decency is to put up barriers that make it onerous to do the right thing for your child.
One more point–my daughter was confused the first time she saw a bottle. I simply told her that’s how some parents sometimes feed their babies. I imagine the same statement works in the opposite case, no? Or should I tell other moms to only bottle feed as long as I don’t see that ugly rubber thing. It might confuse my children, after all, and force me to answer questions.
Considering all of the inappropriate exposure of breasts I have to see when I walk through the halls of the local middle school and high school, I find it sad that people could even be offended by breastfeeding. Seems to be more women who are offended, too….those are probably the ones who prance on the beach in a thong bikini!
Cathy
Lovely photos, Annie, and well-written post, however as far as the Burka goes… I know plenty of women wouldn’t really choose to wear something that covers them up so much, but they have NO choice, and that is the biggest problem of all, fearing for your life if your face is exposed to the public.
As far as breastfeeding, I did what I could to cover up if I was in public, but if my baby was crying and needed to be fed, I didn’t really care at that time who saw what/who thought what. I remember being on a plane and feeding my 6 month old, and no one cared, and I wasn’t really covered up, either.
One time, something bothered me, though – I was in the nursing room at Rideau Centre, where they are about 4 or 5 nursing chairs in a quiet room with dim lighting – and I would always go feed my baby D there – and once, a man was in there, just standing up, near his wife. I didn’t start breastfeeding until he left the room. I found that VERY uncomfortable!
@Loukia: In a lot of countries, they have no choice and not having choice is bad. However, in Canada I do know of women who have that choice and who choose the burka. They may be influenced by their upbringing (aren’t we all?), but it is their choice now.
Beautiful. I love your approach to this, Annie.
I have said it before, and it’s the only thing I too often see missing from this argument. The social interdiction against the exposure of a woman’s nipple, juxtaposed with the complete liberty of males to expose theirs, is legislated sexism. I don’t want to walk around looking at nipples all day, male or female, but the notion that it’s wrong to let someone possibly momentarily see a *functional* nipple being used for it’s biological and evolutionary purpose is nothing short of sexist oppression.
@slee: It is legislated sexism in those jurisdictions where that is the case. In some jurisdictions (e.g. Ontario, New York) women have just as much right as men to walk around topless. So it is more of a societal issue than a jurisdictional one in those cases.
I think that part of the aversion to a nursing mother’s breast stems from fat phobia, as well. The kind of disgust I have seen for women feeding children in public is a lot like the reactions I have seen to heavy women in revealing clothing. You should be ashamed! I should not have to look at that! Seeing you violates my rights! Stinks of the same kind of sexism and hatred of women’s bodies, to me. And for the record, I whip ‘em out whenever. I’m too tired and busy to seek to protect the delicate sensibilities of people who might decide to spend needless energies being offended.
Thanks for the article!
@Nicole – Agreed! To take your point one step further, and someone correct me if I’m wrong, but not many people go around telling fat people to cover up. People avert their eyes. No one would dare be so rude as to say something! It would hurt and offend the person to whom they were talking! Writing a book or blog post on the subject would be extremely taboo, and yet so many people feel it’s okay to spout off about the indecency of nursing in public or showing parts of their breast when doing so. I’m not against people being offended by the sight of something they find distasteful. We’re all different after all, but I think people need to look away if they don’t like seeing something.
They may not say it to the person, but many say it to themselves, or others
It seems it’s really only OK to be “exposed” (by whatever definition) in this society if one is young, thin and pretty (and not breastfeeding!)
I just wanted to bring up a point that I thought was funny. I’ve been talking about this whole thing with various friends and relatives today and I brought up to someone that I think I ‘revealed’ more in my wedding dress than I have breastfeeding in public because of the way the bodice was cut. LOL
Why is there a child in a cage in the second to last picture?
@uh…. I believe that is the railing of a staircase that the child is climbing.
It would seem to be as the bottom half of that girl appears to be lower than floor level?
But it looks like there is a full top as there is a blanket up there?
This is pretty much my argument on covering up during breastfeeding. I like to think that women who use blankets to nurse would be uncomfortable in a low-neck shirt. I’m okay with shirts that are just low enough to not quite show cleavage, and when I nurse I keep my breast mostly covered with my shirt, but I do not use a blanket. I think some people just have a fear of nipples showing, though.
I have nursed three babies and I always use a blanket or cover if I am nursing in a public area where I am in close quarters with other people (if I am at a park, or in a home I typically don’t) For me it is about my own comfort level. I wouldn’t wear a low-cut shirt or a mid-drift bearing top, a mini skirt or a bikini, and I don’t want my stomach or my breast out for all to see when I am nursing either. For me, it’s just not comfortable! So I cover for my own sake, not for those who may or may not be looking!
Most think it’s great to show your breast if your nor nursing. Put a nursing baby/toddler to your breast, and all of a sudden it becomes a problem. I feel like you, if it bothers you, there are several other places for you to look.
Love all the pics you posted.
Great post Annie! I love all of the pics! And what a great message!
I love the strong visual component of this article. I think it really helps breastfeeding moms in the US and other western cultures to look around the world and get some perspective on our own little squabbles over what is right or decent regarding dress and/or breastfeeding.
It seems like oftentimes people think what’s “right” is what they are used to seeing, and anything unusual is “creepy” or “offensive” and controversial to do or promote. Sadly, the upsurge in formula and bottle feeding over the last century has made breastfeeding an unusual thing to do in the US.
Now that breastfeeding has attained this controversial stigma, women have to become or be born tough and unafraid to feel comfortable nursing in public (or nursing at all). I never intended to write about things like this, but it seems like a major issue in breastfeeding advocacy. The science is there (though more research and communication is always needed), now we need more social and legal progress!
Heather
Beautiful Annie. Bravo.
While I respect the opinion of others on this matter, I, like Thomas, respectfully disagree. I am a mother and I have breastfed my son for 12 months and have actually nursed in public without having to flash others. I made sure I did not do this because I feel it is an issue of modesty and with my religious beliefs I make sure I am modest when I am out in public.
I do think that more people need to breastfeed and be aware of breastfeeding – but I do think there are modest ways to go about this agenda.
And that’s my opinion from a woman who does (or did – I think we’re weened now) breastfeed. I don’t mean to cause up any sort of stir on here. I just wanted to share my opinion.
@Kristen: The whole point of this post is to point out that if you want to nurse in public without flashing others because you are comfortable being modest (by your definition of modest, which is not a universal definition of modest), then great. But others shouldn’t be held to your standard. They should feel free to cover more or cover less than you do.
An issue I have with seeing a burka as a “choice” and therefore possibly “empowering” is that my understanding is it is darn difficult to see out of one of those. Of course, there are people from free societies who make choices that both run contrary to their culture and that also hinder their freedom of movement and full participation in society (such as certain body modifications). I may find that deicion odd but because that choice isn’t part of the a social structure geared to demean them, I can see it theoretically as a “choice”. In the case of the burka (or foot binding or genital mutilation), however, the culture is strongly influencing the individual to make a choice that is restrictive and therefore I have trouble seeing it as anything empowering.
I also can see a society’s strong and rational interest in requiring that at least the eyes of a person is visible. So, I don’t equate that with telling one gender to cover up their chest.
@Candace: With regards to the burka being uncomfortable and therefore unlikely to be a choice, there are also things that are very uncomfortable that North American women choose to do. There are heels that are uncomfortable to walk in, push up bras that are extremely uncomfortable, waxing and plucking of hairs from various parts of their body, etc. But for some reason, they choose to do it.
Annie–perhaps I am not expressing myself clearly? It isn’t the discomfort. It is the restrictiveness. It is the way that it intrinsically, in a very fundamental way prevents participation in society. If there were two-way glass out of which the woman could see perfectly, that would be another issue. Then I could see it as possibly empowering in allowing the woman to gaze freely while preventing others from gazing at her.
I also said that while some counter-culture people might choose body modifications that similarly hamper their participation in society, this is not influenced by a patriarchal culture.
So it is the restrictiveness of the “choice” PLUS the fact that it is influenced by a patriarchal culture that makes it hard for me to see it as an empowering choice. It is an AND construction, not an OR.
I also have a hard time seeing heels that are so high as to substantially impede movement as a feminist and empowering “choice” but it is both a restrictiveness and a patriarchy on an objectively lower order than not being able to see well because you’ve been influenced by a culture that so diminishes your humanity that you are viewed as chattel.
Burkas are demeaning and subjugating. Just because a large part of the world insits on it, a society where all women must cover themselves as a sign of their submissive status is inappropriate and an insult to all women. There is nothing we need to be culturally relative about here. Burkas are wrong. It calls into question the validity of an entire culture’s perspective…something I would rather not do, but must if I am to hold myself as any sort of empowered woman.
Loved it! Basically, do your own thing and respect people who do theirs.
Exactly!
I love this post and i could not agree more. Choice is the issue and anything that promotes a woman breastfeeding whenever and wherever her baby needs her is perfect for me!
I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVED this article! So beautiful!
I totally disagree! I am a breastfeeding mom and feel it is 100% appropriate to RESPECT others and not expose myself to those in the area. Look away…please! Just because it is natural and human to have sex doesn’t mean we have to display it in public and hope people look away and don’t get offended. Yes it is natural and we are feeding our babies, but where is the respect for others? I get so mad all of the the feminist breastfeeding moms who feel it is their right or entitlement to expose themself. No it’s not dirty or wrong to breastfeed, but it is called respect!!!!
How far would you go to respect others Amy? Who gets to decide what skin you can show and what you can’t show? What if someone thinks it is offensive for you to be exposing your ankles, your shoulders, your face? What gives them the right to tell you how much to cover up?
This has nothing to do with having sex in public, so don’t even bother going there.
Breastfeeding in public is not about exposing oneself, it is not about feminism (though it has some intersections), it is not about sex (a private act in almost every place and time and one that does not need to occur every few hours for survival, last time I checked), nor, just in case that is next, is it about defecation.
Breastfeeding is only comparable to one thing, which is what it truly is: eating…an activity which is not only normal and natural but also necessary and social in almost every culture.
Breastfeeding is how my baby eats. I don’t want to expose myself or prove a point. I just want to feed my baby without hiding away from the world.
I loved the photos. The one that says “Life is good” is my favourite. (I’d just replace the flag with a Canadian one.)
I LOVE that the photos started with a woman wearing a burka. It is a parallel I drew myself in a recent blog post: http://biglittledays.blogspot.com/2010/04/mama-dont-wear-no-burka.html
The choice it the crucial issue, not the practice. I love how people are all about nursing in public…but only if you’re DISCREET–the argument is tired and counterproductive. Let’s fight for our daughters’ freedom to nurse anywhere, any way they want!
LOVE this! A picture is worth a thousand words- Very well said!