A friend of mine was at swimming lessons with her family. This visit to the pool was nothing out of the ordinary. They swam. She nursed her toddler. They got ready to leave and headed out to the parking lot. As they were putting their children into the car, another family tossed their young child into the backseat of their car, didn’t put her in a car seat or buckle her up with a seat belt, and started driving away. My friend banged on their car and told them their child had to be properly secured. That it is the law. The mother turned to my friend and said “stop breastfeeding your daughter” and drove off with the child still unbuckled.
Huh?
Parents, and mothers in particular, seem very apt to react emotionally to any criticism of their parenting, whether warranted (as it was in this case) or not (as it is so frequently). It even goes as far as people reacting emotionally to anyone else supporting a parenting choice that is different from their own. These emotional reactions do nothing but fuel the mommy wars. I think if we all took a moment to think and reflect in the face of any direct or indirect criticism, rather than responding in anger, we’d all be a lot happier and like each other a lot more.
Knee-jerk reactions make you sound like a jerk. Period. If someone does criticize your parenting, whether warranted or not, stop and think before you respond. Use rational arguments rather than shouting irrelevant or unrelated insults or criticisms in return. It will make other people like you a lot more, but more importantly, I think it will make you like yourself a lot more too.
{ 108 comments… read them below or add one }
Unfortunately, when the parenting tactic being criticized is as ridiculous as not putting your toddler in a car seat, it’s gonna be difficult to respond with any sort of a calm or rational argument… =(
But, you do make an excellent point of not automatically getting defensive or spouting off insults when someone questions your parenting choices.
One question this post brings up for me… if you see someone do something that is that dangerous/irresponsible, but also clearly that much of a definite choice made by the parents (they didn’t just forget to buckle the kid up, it looks like that was a deliberate decision to let her sit in the back seat without a restraint) is it even wise to try to point it out? My guess is in most of those instances you’ll experience the type of reaction your friend did. It may sound callous of me to say so, but I wonder if in those cases it’s best to just leave well enough alone…?
Marcy:
There is always the option of calling the police, which is what my friend did after they drove off. Unfortunately, despite the fact that our local police is supposedly doing a crackdown right now on car seat usage, I know people who have called the police before to report habitual non-use of child restraints and the police don’t bother to look into it.
In terms of approaching someone, I think positioning it as offering help instead of just criticizing can help. In this case, for example, I might try to phrase it in such a way as to make it sound like I am sure they just forgot to buckle their child in (rather than that they purposely didn’t do so). Similarly, if someone is screaming at or hitting a child in public, you could ask if they need a hand. Certainly, that isn’t guaranteed to solicit a positive response, but maybe it would be more likely to get a positive response than just telling someone what they are doing wrong. Not sure.
Bit of a tangent here, but how do you know the police haven’t looked into the reports? Did they inform the people who made the reports that they were not going to look into it or have those people just not seen results? Is it possible that the police just haven’t gotten to it yet, as they may be dealing with calls/issues that may be a higher priority? Sorry – I tend to get a bit defensive when people are critical of police. I used to be somewhat critical too, until my husband became a cop – his experiences have given me new insight into the challenges and pressures they face. Given limited resources (in our city, police are very short staffed though to the outside observer it may not appear that way) the police are often limited to addressing emergency calls and aren’t able to get to other non-emergency calls related to community safety. They recognize that issues like the car-seat use are important, but they just might not be able to address it right away.
Another option for addressing issues of child safety, like not using car-seats which is, in my mind, child endangerment, is to call Children’s Aid – you might need more than a licence plate though to make a report; they may require a name and/or address, though one would hope that Children’s Aid would be able to get an address from a licence plate by contacting police. Maybe police should just pass on reports re: lack of child seat use to Children’s Aid, though I’m not sure they have enough time or resources to address reports, either.
Re: criticizing – I often find myself biting my tongue re: parenting practices I feel really strongly about. I’m getting better at not criticizing, though I do “offer information” and refer people to websites and blogs (often this one) that eloquently express the things I’d like them to hear/learn. But not judging is quite a bit harder, especially when it comes to things like cry it out, and ideas/beliefs that are not evidence based.
Rebecca:
The people I know who have called the police multiple times are reporting a dad who picks up his children from school every day and puts them into the car unrestrained and drives off. They have reported him multiple times, giving a licence plate and the location of the school where they could come and watch him do it any day of the week. But yet it continues…
That is terrible – on the part of the parent and the police. Perhaps a call to CAS next… or to a police supervisor?
Has she talked to the principal of the school? Maybe school weight could be thrown in to bear there. I know at one kid pick up area of my kids schools they always stopped the cars to make sure everyone was appropriately belted for age and size. (They enforced an 8 years and 80 lbs car seat/booster rule in that state at kid pick up-even though it made for a longer kid pick up for smaller kids like mine who couldn’t belt themselves in. Not that I minded. I hated being the freak worry mom who always made her kindergarten child sit in a regular 5 pt car seat.
I think that’s great. At our school they don’t want anyone using the “kiss and ride” in front of the JK/SK yard unless the child can get out unassisted (the driver is not supposed to get out of the car). They suggest an older child or neighbour should help if the kid can’t. Um, my 5.5 year old IS the older child, and he’s still in a 5 pt. harness. And bringing a neighbour to drop my child off at school? LOL Anyway, to me it’s encouraging parents to put their 4 and 5 year olds in boosters. If I drive my son to school, I park the car up the road and walk back to the school.
O…M…G. I just, I don’t even know how I’d respond. I’m definitely one of those people who would have said something to the family not buckling their kid, too. And then, especially after a response/reaction like that, I would have been on the phone with the police spouting out their license plate number. Holy cow. My blood is boiling just thinking about that whole situation.
I am the type of parent who researches everything obsessively, to ensure that I am making informed decisions. I am also the type of parent who will do whatever it takes to pay for my decisions. So, yeah – research has clearly indicated that car seats are the safest place for young children, and the law requires the use of a car seat (with age/weight/height guidelines). We have a top-of-the-line car seat, still rear-facing (DS is 13 months, 22 lbs). But that is me/us.
I can also recognize that much of the way I view the world comes from a place of privilege – education, race, socioeconomic, etc. Not everyone has access to the things I take for granted, not everyone understands all the options available to them.
I actually got into a heated argument with someone about this one time … because I feel there is no excuse *not* to use a car seat – you can get one for free through many organizations. My opponent disagreed with me vehemently – pointing out what she believed to be a naive – if not racist and elitist – point of view. People with less money have less access – to everything. Sure, I know about places to get free car seats – but the people who really need this service may not have the information. Further, it is common (at least where I live) to see several children sitting in one another’s laps in the backseat of a small car, none have seat belts on – the family does not have the money to buy a larger vehicle … and a car seat would take up a large amount of space … and only 2 will fit in small cars. How do you transport your entire family if you can’t affort a larger vehicle? I have even seen young children holding newborn babies while riding in the back seat of a car! While it is heartbreaking to think of the dangers … this is the financial reality for many. It is also part of a culture – in many other countries, it is common to see whole families of 3, 4 and more piled onto a moped – with groceries! I am not defending putting children in danger or breaking the law … just pointing out another side of the story.
In the case described above, it sounds like the problem was just blatant disregard for the safety of the child as well as for the law. But we don’t know the whole story … I would have called the police and let it go. I wouldn’t feel safe in this world yelling at/pounding on someone’s car, especially with my own child in tow – you never how people are going to react to such an “attack” – whether what they are doing is indeed unsafe and illegal or not.
I tend to think that if you can afford to pay for swimming lessons, then you can afford to pay for a car seat. Priorities are important. But perhaps that is an elitist point of view. Certainly there could have been reasons other than money (as andrea from the fishbowl mentioned), but personally (a) even with those reasons it isn’t a risk I would take and (b) if I felt I was justified in doing so, I would explain my reasons rather than just lashing out at the person.
Um, and if you can afford to buy a CAR, couldn’t you spend a hundred bucks more to get a car seat?!?
I gotta say, I don’t really think it was your friend’s place to ‘tell’ them to use a child seat or seat belt. I know it’s illegal but telling people how to parent never gets a good response. If she was concerned for the child’s safety she probably should’ve skipped the confrontation and just called the police. Are the parents extremely stupid for driving around without a restraint? Absolutely. But we don’t know the situation or the people so unless the child’s life is in immediate danger I’m not sure it’s always the best idea to intervene.
But isn’t the child’s life in immediate danger if they get hit by another car pulling out of the parking lot and the child goes flying through the window?
“But isn’t the child’s life in immediate danger if they get hit by another car pulling out of the parking lot and the child goes flying through the window?”
‘If’ is the key word here. A possibility is not an immediate danger. A child running out in front of a speeding car is an immediate danger. A child getting into a car unrestrained is not an immediate danger because, although it has the potential to be very dangerous indeed, it is not a certainty or even a strong possibility that the car in which he or she is riding will be in an accident, let alone one that will send him or her ‘flying through the window’. In that regard, putting a child in a car without a child seat is indeed a gamble (one that not many parents are willing to take but, again, we don’t know the situation or why the family might not have or be using a seat) but not necessarily an immediate danger.
I look at it in the same way I would a family riding bikes in traffic without helmets on. It’s not a good idea, certainly, and has the *potential* to be very dangerous but ultimately it is their decision to take those risks. We might not like it, we might they’re insane to take those risks, but I don’t think it’s really our place to ‘inform’ them of why their decision is a bad one. Engaging in dialogue is one thing but banging on someone’s car and shouting at them isn’t really ‘dialogue’ and so I’m not surprised at all that your friend’s response was met with reciprocal judgment and unkindness. Assuming that someone who makes a different choice is simply ‘uninformed’ can come across as elitism masked as concern, even if that was not the intent. This applies to other areas of parenting in which we hold strong convictions of what is ‘right’ and that anyone not making a similar choice either doesn’t know that what they’re doing is ‘wrong’ or doesn’t care. It’s dangerous ground to tread.
You did not mention how your friend reacted to the “unwarranted” remark about breastfeeding. Sounds like it was said in anger with the unspoken “mind your own business” behind it.
It seems to me that being critical of someone’s parenting style – whether openly, or silently – has become a part of our collective personality. Let us face it, even our own parents are critical of how we raise our kids. How do we react to their criticism? How do we react to any criticism?
Giving feedback is an art, just the same way receiving feedback is an art. If you give feedback (or criticize) with a “I know it better than you” attitude, it is not going to go well. It is not just the words you use, but also how you say it and what you don’t say. When feedback is given in a defensive way, it is also received in a defensive way. From that point of view, the feedback giver owns a higher level of responsibility for the resulting response.
I think your friend showed the right sense of urgency because the situation involved a child’s safety. There is no perfect way to handle a situation like this. Your suggestion about offering help rather than just being critical is a good one. The only thing I will add is that do it in a way that shows you are genuinely offering help. That will improve the likelihood that your approach will be received favorably by the other person.
Thanks for another thought-provoking post!
Personally I think the person lashed out because they knew damn well they were wrong. You don’t endanger a child like that period. I tend to stay out of people’s business unless I think that a child is being hurt. At that point any adult that witnesses it has a duty to speak up and who cares about the parents feelings. Children are vulnerable and cannot protect themselves and it is up to all adults ton make sure they are not harmed.
It’s so sad when someone responds out of defense that is only meant to be hurtful, and not civil or open minded. I don’t want to be that type of person.
Steph
Tough call. I think if I was in that situation I’d probably say something in the heat of the moment too. But as one of your commenters pointed out, we really don’t know the whole story, do we? And it’s hard to pass judgement without knowing both sides. (Haven’t we all been in situations where we look like “bad” parents out in public?) Maybe the family can’t afford a car seat? Maybe they actually have one but the dog barfed all over it before their left for swim lessons? Maybe it wasn’t their car and they were mortified to be travelling without a car seat … you know what I mean?
Their pointed and rude remark about the breast feeding was uncalled for, but I also think, said out of guilt. They knew they were in the wrong.
I have been in the situation of seeing a child, unrestrained, head poking out of the sunroof of a car. A family a few blocks down from me does this routinely, the child’s head pops up as soon as they turn off of the highway, still 2 miles from their home. I started calling the police, but I never approached the parents. They aren’t going to listen to me but maybe they will listen to a police officer. I can only hope.
I have to agree with some of the previous comments, the person lashed out because they knew they were wrong, became defensive and tried to “hurt back.” That in no way justifies or excuses them, but it perhaps puts their statements in context. It’s sad when a knee-jerk reaction is to BE a jerk. I try very hard not to be that kind of person.
Fantastic article, Annie, and very thought-provoking. A couple of months ago a friend of mine asked on her facebook for experiences where one has confronted another person in public, and got some interesting stories. I think, if it was me and I had had time to think through my reaction (which it sounds like your friend did not), I would likely have said, “Oops, looks like you forgot to buckle in the little one!” If the reaction had been hostile (as it was), I would have called the police right away (and they would in turn contact Child Services). I would have tried not to make a confrontation about it. But in the circumstances, with the family about to drive off, I think your friend did the best she could.
I disagree strongly with those who say it was not your friend’s place to say anything. Of course it’s our place, as members of a community, to look out for all our children.
I am going to be devil’s advocate for a second and ask if people speak out if they see adults and/or children jaywalking, not wearing a bike helmet, eating hotdogs (choking hazard!) or walking their dogs off their leashes. Those situations are also potentially life-threatening, aren’t they?
I’m really torn here. Do we, as parents, speak out? Or keep our advice to ourselves?
If I see a child riding bikes with a parent and the child is not wearing a helmet, and I can say something, then yes, I do. Usually I’m driving past them in my car. I have been known to yell at pedestrians when they are jaywalking, especially with children.
I agree that there must be a line somewhere. I’m not sure where it is. But not putting your child in a car seat when motor vehicle accidents are the number one cause of death for children is definitely on this side of the line.
You really YELL at people from your moving vehicle for ‘jaywalking’ or for not wearing helmets? I think that’s just ridiculous. It is not your job to make sure everyone else is conforming to your safety standards. Would you tell a parent with their severely overweight child in McDonald’s that they’re endangering their child’s health by letting him eat that Happy Meal? Would you stop a parent who was smoking while pushing a stroller and tell them to put it out because if offends your idea of what is ‘right’ and ‘safe’?
I agree with Boozehound — there does seem to be a certain breed of middle class parent concerned with everyone’s ‘safety’ to the nth degree and who aren’t afraid to ‘educate’ you on the 9,000 ways everyone else and their child might die if they don’t adhere. Where does it end? Why can’t people who are concerned about safety just do what they feel is best for their family and keep their opinions about others’ practices to themselves? Unless it is endangering your *own* family, I really don’t see how it’s your business. I use car seats and I would hate to see a child travelling in a car without one but I wouldn’t yell at people who have made a different choice (for whatever reason, which I would have no way of knowing) and tell them how wrong they are. If you need to do that to allay your conscience then knock yourself out but be prepared for the nasty comments and brushoffs, I say.
Noble Savage:
I guess I think there is a difference between “my safety standards” (or anyone else’s) and something that is both dangerous and against the law. Taking your severely overweight child to McDonald’s is not a great idea IMO, but if it is a special treat for a child who has otherwise been adhering to a strict diet and working really hard at losing weight, then it certainly isn’t my place to jump in and tell that person what to do. Someone smoking while pushing a stroller? Better than smoking while driving the car with all of the windows closed (which is against the law here, just like not using a child seat or allowing your child to cycle without a helmet).
You asked “why can’t people who are concerned about safety just do what they feel is best for their family and keep their opinions about others’ practices to themselves?“. I guess because I couldn’t live with myself if knowingly didn’t say something in a dangerous situation and then something happened. In fact, I think it is pretty disgusting how often people turn a blind eye and let people drive drunk, abuse their spouse or child, etc. Is there never a situation where you would intervene if it didn’t affect your own family’s safety? I can accept that maybe your line, my friend’s line, my line, Natalie’s line may all be in different places, but surely there is a line? Is there not?
Well said, Annie! I was trying to come up with a response, but couldn’t find the right words!
I do agree that some health and safety regulations go too far (can’t keep track of all the recalls on infant and child products lately), and I certainly don’t want to live in a nanny state, but car seats and bike helmets are pretty common sense to me.
Yes, I am mostly torn because my thoughts are if I don’t say anything I am advocating.
I meant to say that I’m usually driving by in my car so I DON’T say anything (re the bike helmets issue).
And, yes, I yell at jaywalking pedestrians but only when they nearly walk into my car or don’t even notice that I’m there, and it’s only because I was on the ball that they didn’t get hurt.
By the way, it is the law to wear bike helmets where I live, just as it is the law to ride in a carseat until age 9.
I might say something like “I had a green light – you’re very lucky I didn’t hit your family – please be careful” if people are crossing the street when they don’t have the right of way. With regards to bike helmets, I haven’t criticized individuals in public, but I did write a post about it. Both my husband and I have told off our neighbour several times in the past week for allowing his dog to come, off-leash, to either do his business on our property or bother our kids while we are at the public “no dogs allowed” beach. I guess I tend to be non-confrontational about these things unless I am directly impacted (i.e. almost got hurt by or hurt someone who was being unsafe).
Personally, if I did forget the safety rules (I have started pulling out of a parking spot before realizing that my child wasn’t buckled in), I would rather have someone say something to me than call the police on me. I’d probably be embarrassed and I might be angry, but that would still be a lot better than having the cops pull me over or show up at my house. Less penalty and less humiliation. Plus I can immediately address the issue (i.e. stop and do up the seatbelt).
I meant to write: “if they SEE adults and/or children” … Sorry!
I agree with everything Noble Savage says above … and would like to add: Nothing good is likely to come of approaching someone about a parenting choice in the heat of the moment. The car seat-less parents in this example would most likely not have stopped the car to listen to your friends “reasonable explanation.” And the fact that this is a decision *you* would not make is exactly the point, in my opinion. Frankly, I am not even sure it should be a law – and think it is likely a law because of all the money it makes for car seat manufacturers. There are many, many “choices” parents make on behalf of their children that are far more likely to cause bodily harm than a car accident, yet there are no laws dictating those things. Should we just keep making laws and remove free choice? Where would it end? Think of times when you have had calm conversations with *friends* about differing choices in parenting – even that can be quite difficult and charged with emotion. So of course confronting a stranger – by yelling or banging on a car – is not going to be taken well. How would your friend have reacted had that parent walked over to her at the pool and yelled, “No one wants to see that – put your breast away!” Granted, a car seat is a safety as well as legal issue … but still, unsolicited “advice” has the same negative and emotional result either way.
abcphoto:
I’m not sure if your “reasonable explanation” comment was in reply to my comment above where I said “(b) if I felt I was justified in doing so, I would explain my reasons rather than just lashing out at the person.” If it was, I think you misunderstood. I was talking about how *I* would react if I got caught/called out for not having my kids buckled in. If there was a reason for it, I would tell the person what that reason was, rather than just yelling an insult back at them. Me explaining my reasons for not having the kids buckled in is the “reasonable explanation” I was referring to.
When I started reading your post, I thought you were going to talk about how your friend had a knee-jerk reaction. I wasn’t at all surprised she got the reaction she did, and I definitely wouldn’t take it personally. Both sides seemed poorly thought out-like you seemed to say in one of your comment responses? It also makes me wonder if your friend either already has something against this person and it was just *one more thing* or alternatively, she was friendly with them and was surprised into action by the situation.
Maybe, like another couple of commenters, I’m from a different part of the country so it’s extra surprising to me. I would have done something like point to the back and make a hand motion or maybe say-hey, did you want some help buckling him/her in? Also, if I go to the pool all the time, I might make a point of introducing myself the next time I see them or try to catch them and give a calm word/offer a hand before they get to the car.
Seriously-banging on the car? That’s not helpful, and I certainly wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that. If it was directed at me for whatever reason, I would feel *very* threatened. Scared even. It’s just going to piss the parent off or scare them and make them more likely to drive badly. Not helpful. Like I said, though-we don’t even honk where I’m from or very very rarely (like the law says you should), and it’s a large (top 5) city. Really, where I live now, people honk, and I always tense up when I hear it because I’m not used to it at all.
I also wouldn’t just call the cops. I have nothing against cops, but, again, being where I’m from, you never know how that will affect the person or the family unless you really know their situation. I’ve worked in therapy situations often enough to know too that seat belts are not usually the biggest issue for many families (or for the police!) It’s all perspective. Depending on what home-life is like, seat belts may be the very last thing on their minds.
Oh, and saying ‘it is the law’ to someone versus ‘it’s dangerous-accidents can happen so easily’ or something is also sort of incomprehensible to me. Different world views I guess.
Sorry for the rambling nature of the above-the whole encounter rubbed me the wrong way, I guess. Thanks for the provoking post!
I just wanted to add a ‘wear your helmets, please’ to this post.
Someone mentioned them above. I study brain injury, and helmets work. Seatbelts work too. Confrontation, not so much. Ok, that’s all!
Oh, and another thought-I don’t know what your friend thinks about Attachment Parenting, but I know you’re an advocate. It just got me to thinking. Why is it that many of the AP ideas are assumed to only apply to children? At what point to draw the line? It’s not just ‘take responsibility for your actions’ as an adult-you hopefully want to guide your children to be responsible too. Why not expand the idea of AP to include gentle living and gentle communicating to everyone? Or am I way off? Thinking “out loud” here
Again, thanks for the post!
The banging on the car, was intended to get their attention. It wasn’t a violent type of knocking, just a “hey, I’m here, I would like to tell you something” kind of knocking. Saying “excuse me, your child isn’t buckled in” as someone drives off with all of their windows up, isn’t going to accomplish anything at all. She needed to do something to let them know that she wanted to tell them something. Honestly, it is the same technique I would use if I wanted to tell them that they had left something on the roof of their car, had left a bag sitting in the parking lot, etc.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.
I just can’t get that emotional about the carseat thing. (it seems to be largely a middle-class white woman obsession, the car seat thing. Not that there’s anything necessarily wrong with that, of course.)
My kids are all in car seats, and, in general, I’m pretty nitpicky about it myself… but you’re talking to a woman who distinctly remembers LAYING DOWN in the floorboard of the family van. There’s no way I’d bang on somone’s window to harass them about a practice that my own beloved mother didn’t bother with half the time.
And why would you even attempt a “reasonable” discussion with an adult unhinged enough to bang on your vehicle, I ask? I would not. I don’t owe every wealthy woman with an opinion a lengthy explanation about how I raise my children.
Pick your battles, and mind your own business. That’s what that mom was telling your friend.
Knee-jerk, or jerk? Both. I am not surprised the person reacted as she did, she was on the defensive and would be well-aware she was in the wrong, and felt attacked. Her comment shows her ignorance further. As to your friend, I don’t think banging on the car was the right way to go about it, but at the same time, had she been more gentle as some have suggested or said “oops, looks like you forgot to buckle up your child” — most likely she’d have gotten the same response. Because it wouldn’t change the fact the other woman was “caught” doing something she has to already know is stupid, she’d have gone on the defensive anyway! Few people like being told they are wrong, especially not people who think they are above the law and so secure in their rightness they endanger their kids.
Some have suggested your friend shouldn’t have said anything because she is not aware of the reasons behind why the other parent didn’t have a carseat. Um, are there any good reasons? Really? Someone might think they have a “good reason” for running a red, doesn’t make it any safer or more legal! Carseat cover wet? Guess that means skipping swimming! Or putting the kid in a damp seat. Can’t afford a seat? There are some very affordable seats, if you can afford to drive a car, you can afford a seat. If not, the savings from taking the bus or walking for a while would go a long way towards saving for one. Still can’t afford one? Then I guess the kids can’t go in the car! Seriously. Because last I checked, it really was the law.
and as for bike helmets, do you know how awesome it would be to even see a family out biking together?
If you make getting regular physical activity into a freakin logistical nightmare in the name of safety, it is not going to be a surprise that lot of tired people opt to let the kids play XBox all day long. Shrug.
I don’t see how bike helmets make a family bike-ride into a logistical nightmare. They sell helmets everywhere they sell bikes, as well as in most department stores, so you wouldn’t need to go out of your way to purchase one. And last I checked bike helmets were easier to put on than shoes are.
And, I actually saw several families out riding today. The trails in my city were packed with them today, along wtih people running and walking, too.
Helmets can make it iffy for people-especially when you have a kid that is totally dead-set against it like my neighbor’s 5 year old. It’s not like he doesn’t have them as examples-they all wear helmets, but he will freak out every time. Nobody’s sure why. They still go and he walks, but it’s rough. Depends on the culture of where you live too, Rebecca.
They do give helmets away around here, which is nice. I am definitely a proponent of helmets (ask my college aged students-I get on soapboxes every now and then about it).
I also agree with Boozehound about biking without a helmet vs. XBox all day. A lot of parents will choose that not because of ‘logistics’ but because they don’t have time to attend to what is currently thought of to be the safest. The helmets my mom had us wear when I was growing up in the 80s are now considered unsafe.
I think video games for kids are pretty unhealthy and pretty bad for development (visual attention, language and motor/strategy skills) up to certain ages-immediate risk or long-term risk choice here, like letting your kids walk to/from school. I have to ‘mind my business’ at other people’s houses who let their 3, 4, 5, whatever year olds play videogames frequently. TV babysitting just really gets my blood going too. It’s like my own personal car seat “thing”.
I have never NOT buckled in my child. But there is something inherently obnoxious about another parent banging on your car door and telling you what to do. Sorry. And did they really “toss” their toddler in the backseat?
Marinka: Apparently they had been arguing with the child. The child wanted chocolate. The parents said no. The child was tantruming. They tossed her in and took off. I’ve been there, but I don’t think it gives me an excuse to ignore safety.
Yup. I’ve put a tantruming child IN his seat. Or waited until he’s calmed down because I simply can’t get him in! Got lots of looks for just sitting there in my car, but oh well.
I’m sorry…it’s the law not a kneejerk reaction. Can you imagine the guilt you would feel if you were in an accident with them and something happened to that unsecured child?! It causes me mental anguish anytime I see a child unsecured in a vehicle. In our neighborhood it seems ok if you’re going to or from the bus with your older kids…and don’t get me started on the number of parents not using a booster seat as required/recommended!
Hillary
Hchybinski: The knee-jerk reaction I was referring to was the mom yelling out “stop breastfeeding your daughter”.
I agree with many of the other posters in that I think your friend probably didn’t handle the situation in the best way – however, I likely would have responded similarly – though generally non-confrontational, when I see something I perceive as dangerous, I tend to act quickly and my response isn’t always as calm or as constructive as I’d like it to be. Chances are, if a car is driving away, the driver isn’t likely to stop for some constructive feedback, anyway, so an easy way to bring attention to the concern quickly may have been to bang on the car. Again, probably not the most helpful response as it is likely to provoke a defensive reaction (like it did in this case), but she made sure the other family were aware of the issue.
The fact that the other woman’s defensive response was regarding breastfeeding kind of baffles me – obviously, the breastfeeding affected the woman strongly, but still kind of bizarre to me that someone would defend their risk taking behaviour with a criticism of something that is healthy and beneficial, though still controversial to some.
With regards to the various comments re: choices, and why care about other people taking risks – why not care? I care about people, period. I wouldn’t want to see anyone get injured, especially a child, and I feel we all have a responsiblity to care for and protect each other. I also think that what happens to others can affect one’s family and community and the greater society in so many different ways.
In the US, carseat laws vary from state to state. In my state, some sort of seat or booster is required until age 8, but in a neighboring state, where a friend is from, seats are only required until age 6. So when my friend was driving through my state and stopped at a store, someone said something to her about her child not being in a seat. Her 7 year old is on the small side, but at home, not required to be in a seat or booster. The commenter assumed that 1–they were purposely breaking the law and 2–that her child was actually younger than she looks. SO yeah, even “knocking” on the car is IMO obnoxious. There are so many better ways she could have handled it. Who elected her carseat police?
I see kids unrestrained in cars all the time. But the police in my city have way too many murderers and drug dealers to deal with. I would never call the police over a carseat issue–I say a prayer instead that God keeps them safe.
Partially her designation as a certified carseat technician “elects” her as the carseat police. I found out today there is at least an ethical, if not legal, obligation for someone with that designation to say/do something. Not sure of the details around it, but I don’t think just ignoring it was an option for her.
Similarly, when I was training to be a lifeguard, one of our training sessions was on “lifeguards and the law” where I live. I learned that where I live, I have an obligation to intervene if people are acting dangerously around water and also that I have a legal obligation to try to save someone if something happens even when I am not on duty. That legal obligation resulted in me turning down an awful lot of “pool party” invitations as a teen/young adult because I knew that it was a lose-lose situation for me if people were drinking and swimming.
Maybe I’m reading your title wrong–it’s been a long day and I’m wiped out. But it sounds like you’re calling the parent a jerk because of her reaction to being confronted. And that seems harsh, especially since you weren’t there. Few parents are at their best when their child is tantruming, or at the end of a day at the pool, which I always find exhausting. Did your friend REALLY think she’d get a positive response? Did she think they’d stop and say, “You know, you’re absolutely right. Please educate me about the law and help me to find a carseat for my child.” Her response might have been knee-jerk, but it’s also normal. If someone is being confrontational and basically calling you a bad parent, who among us would NOT be defensive? The parents, for whatever reason, made a *terrible* choice. But that, in and of itself, does not make them jerks.
FWIW, I don’t see her comment as anti-breastfeeding sentiment. Lots of people are uncomfortable with nursing toddlers in public. It would have been a bigger deal if she went to the pool management or approached your friend while she was nursing. The impression that I got was, “I don’t agree with your choices, but I let you be. So do the same for me.”
Kayris:
No, I don’t think you are reading it wrong. I do think the woman was being a jerk for reacting that way after being confronted. I think the fact that so many people react that way is the reason that there are so many “mommy wars”. I think responding rationally or not responding at all is a better way to deal with those types of situations. It kind of reminded me of the old playground insult wars that were a round of, “oh yeah, well your mother….” with the accusation escalating each time. I agree that it is natural for most people to be defensive, but I think we would all be better off and get along a lot better if people didn’t scream insults when they feel defensive. That was my point.
That is an interesting point you made about how the two comments were linked (i.e. the “I don’t agree with your choices, but I let you be. So do the same for me.”). I hadn’t considered that. It does make a lot more sense from that perspective (I was really bewildered trying to find any connection between the two). Unfortunately, though the actions of one of them is against the law while the actions of the other is protected by law. So it is about more than just agreeing/disagreeing with someone else’s choice (as it would be if this was an argument about two parenting practices that are both perhaps controversial but also both legal).
The thing is, while I think being polite and rational is always better, I absolutely do not think we need to defend or explain our parenting choices to strangers. In fact, I think a parent who doesn’t want to do that is more confident that a parent who feels required to do so.
For example…
Both my children are small compared to children their ages. Both were smaller than average at birth, both hovered around the 15th percentile on the charts and my daughter was a weenie 16 1/2 pound one year old, but both were, and are, very healthy. Strangers commented on it all the time. They asked if my doctor was ok with me breastfeeding. They said they would grow more if I fed them formula. They asked if they were premature or sickly, and one woman went as far as to say my son wouldn’t be able to play sports (she should have seen him skiing last month). With the first kid, I felt obligated to explain that, yes he was small, but he was charting consistently, eating and growing well and our pediatrician was happy with his health.
By the time the second kid came along, I no longer felt like I had to justify myself to strangers. Why would I? I’m accountable to my family and my God, not some pushy woman I’ll never see again. So I perfected my vacant smile and dismissive, “The pediatrician says she’s healthy,” and left it at that. EXCEPT for one day when I’d had a terrible day and the woman in question would NOT shut up and let me pay for my groceries in peace. So I finally said, “Yes, she is small. Both kids were small, but I’m glad since they came out my vagina.” Rude? Perhaps. But she was overstepping her bounds “out of concern for my child” in something that was none of her business. And she turned bright red and changed lines and probably went home to tell her husband about that vulgar woman in the grocery store with the starving child.
My point is, we’re ALL rude at some point. Maybe that woman’s *response* was jerky. That doesn’t automatically make HER a jerk, anymore than your friend a jerk for knocking on their car.
Kayris:
You are right. You don’t need to defend your parenting choices. I think that the way you reacted in all of those situations was fine. It also would have been fine to say “it is none of your business“. But if you had said: “oh yeah, well isn’t your kid a bit old to be sucking her thumb?“, then I think that would be an inappropriate response. Insulting someone else, just because you feel insulted, isn’t going to help anything. That was the point I was trying to make.
Also, I wasn’t trying to say the woman is always a jerk. I was trying to make the point that society often seems to pass off knee-jerk reactions as acceptable, but I don’t think it is appropriate/useful to act like a jerk (even if you aren’t always one) just because you are put on the defensive.
I think it’s appropriate and useful to cut people some slack. Not in regards to not using a carseat, but in her reaction to the knocking on the car, etc. Sometimes people catch us on bad days. I think it’s worth it to not take things personally and shrug it off. Had I been your friend, I would have shrugged and said, “Suit yourself. Have a great evening.”
A friend of mine took her family to the zoo and rather than pack a lunch for 5 people, they ate at the snack bar. And some guy looked at their burgers and fries and said, “Oh yeah, THAT’S a healthy looking lunch.” And honestly, my response would have been to tell him to fuck off. HE was the rude one and I ddn’t feel like she had any obligation to explain that it was a treat or that yes, they were aware that her son’s weight was an issue.
I’m also a little surprised at the number of people who would call CPS over carseats. Perhaps CPS in Canada is different than the US, but in many parts of the US, the system is so broken that calling CPS can be worse for the child and can end up with them being removed from an otherwise loving home and put into a place where they face abuse, neglect or worse. I’ve heard so many terrible stories about the failings of CPS that I would NEVER call over carseats.
I don’t think my friend took the breastfeeding comment personally. I think she was more left shaking her head and wondering what the heck it had to do with the situation.
Children’s Aid in Ontario, while not a perfect system, can be a great resource to families who are struggling. They are able to provide education and connect the family with community resources and support as appropriate. Their goal is to keep children with their families and help families to function better – they will only remove a child from the home in extreme cases where the child is at immediate risk of harm. They would probably not apprehend the child in this situation, but might provide the family with education re: the importance of child seats and the laws around them. Or they may not act at all, but at least by reporting you’ve attempted to ensure that the child is being adequately protected. Even Children’s Aid says “when in doubt, call”.
I think we should be kind enough offer help those less privy to information than us, as well as those who clearly need protecting, like children. I assume that’s how your friend approached the situation, and it would seem she was rudely rebuffed for a lack of information… It’s easy to assume, then, that there’s an educational or some other disadvantage at play. But it’s all just assumptions, unfortunately. Assumptions are dangerous, too, but… The only certainty is that an unrestrained child is a risk, and it ought to be pointed out and reported where there are potentially resources to improve the situation (if it’s necessary – for all we know, it may have been a one-off embarrassing mistake). Calling the cops is never my 1st choice (they aren’t reliable/great in my area, and also have scarce resources when you are lucky to encounter one of the few who are), but in this case I’d make an exception… unless there was a better alternative organisation. There is no correct way to approach this situation, I think, besides just doing your best. Hard to think on your feet about all the implications sometimes.
Having travelled in the developing world myself, and ridden helmet-less on a motorbike, and visited with families there… Just a few points: if they had better safety available, they’d use it. Family is very serious business when one has little else! And cheap motorbikes with bad brakes don’t go very fast when laden with families of 5-6… Or 2 “larger” westerners.
The risk, comparative to our tops speeds in cars – and even pushbikes going downhill! – is comparatively minimal.
But, wow – anti-breastfeeding sentiment always astounds me. I’ve been lucky enough not to encounter it so far, even with a lack of being “discreet” and when I’ve explained full-term feeding/child-led weaning intentions to formula fans. The only time people seem to flinch is when co-sleeping or CIO is mentioned…
I think it’s worth pointing out that you should have your facts straight before you call another parent out. If your friend’s case, the situation was pretty blatant (though I still would have kept my mouth shut, I think) but when my daughter was two weeks old, we had a similar experience. We don’t have a car so just bought the cheapest car seat on the market, the convertible kind (which meets safety standards as all the others do). Of course, it’s not the kind of seat most people are used to seeing newborns in. We had been at the breastfeeding clinic at the hospital and were getting into a cab to go home when some woman knocked on the window and told us we had the wrong kind of carseat, that our daughter was too small for it. I’m sure she was trying to be helpful but it wasn’t helpful, and she was wrong, and it was really the last thing I needed at that moment.
I think that’s a good point, I often see infant seats in cars with the handle or sun visor up, and wonder if that’s OK — my seat was not supppsed to be used that way. But I’ve heard from a carseat tech that some seats *can* be used safely with the handle up, so I don’t say anything because I haven’t read the manual of every seat (and it’s been a long time since I even used an infant seat or researched them, so could be completely out of date in my info). I would certainly hate to give out wrong info while trying to be helpful! (I did however alert the police when I saw a man with an infant under 12 months old riding FF in the front seat of his Miata — that I am certain is NOT safe, or legal!)
I am certain I would not have said anything, as I am the complete opposite of confrontational. But I commend your friend for reacting to the unsafe situation she saw. I think she could have said it a little differently, but I am sure she thinks that now after the situation, too.
Side note: As for car seat use being the law, there is a reason it is the law… and it has nothing to do with car seat manufacturers making money (as acbphoto mentioned). There is research that shows it is safer for children to ride in appropriate car seats. While it is sad that there even has to be a law so that parents will do what is safe, it is also lawmakers’ duty to look out for the weakest members of society. Also, sadly, if it weren’t a law and some parent decided to drive around with their child in the backseat when they got rear ended, guess who they would sue for any injury to their child? So, the law helps keep all of our car insurance premiums down and protects other drivers from feeling the guilt of causing injury to a child. O, and the “when I was little we didn’t have car seats and I survived” doesn’t do much for me. I mean, when my parents were little they had lead paint in their house and they survived… that doesn’t mean I am going to paint my daughter’s room with lead paint and hope she doesn’t ingest it.
I’m with you re: the “When I was little” arguments. Yes, we survived, but we were lucky. Lots of others didn’t survive – that’s why safety devices like car seats and helmets were created and came to be required by law.
The comment about breastfeeding would have rolled off my back, the parent who is driving around in the car with a child loose isn’t someone I care what they think of me.
I can not turn a blind eye when there are safety issues. I would have called the cops if they drove off after I said something and not felt an ounce of guilt. I would have also confronted the parent the next week at swim lessons. Gently but ready with resources in case they needed it. As someone who has reported many things to CPS when I was a mandated reporter I know that many times that initial contact from police or social services can be vital for families. I am not suggesting that in this exact case CPS needed to be contacted, but never intervening because our view may be elitist is simply not taking the child’s best interest to heart.
I agree that often times coming from a position of privilege and education we forget that when your home life isn’t stable , you are focusing on survival not thriving things I may take for granted ( like the ability to research things like car seat safety) are simply not a reality in others lives. That is not an excuse for breaking the law after someone offers information/ resources about law and child safety. If you still choose not to listen no matter your situation you are willfully disregarding it and putting your child in danger, and you deserve the law to intervene.
Interesting post and discussion. I’m not sure that I would call failing to properly restrain a child in a car a ‘parenting choice’ though. When you’re talking about something that is illegal and dangerous, it moves from being a simple matter of choice and ‘to each their own’ to a matter of community responsibility. How you feed your child, how you dress your child, how you choose to (legally and not abusively) discipline your child… these are all choices and there is, quite rightly, a large variance in the community. But just as I don’t get to choose which road rules I follow and say ‘oh, I just would really rather NOT stop at the red light, it’s my CHOICE’, parents don’t get to choose which road car laws they adhere to with regard to restraining their children.
If someone was teaching their child to shoplift, would that be a ‘parenting choice’ too?
Exactly.
I’ve been quite shocked by the number of people who thought it isn’t anyone’s place to tell someone else to ensure their child is properly restrained. Not at all what I expected the conversation to be about.
To those who think the friend was wrong for being confrontational (and I will admit that I would’ve been too cowardly to do so) – car accidents are the NUMBER ONE cause of death to children in the US. NUMBER ONE. Above choking, above kidnapping, above ANYTHING else.
If you saw a stranger’s child wrapping a cord around her neck, would you say something? If you saw a stranger’s child going off with ANOTHER stranger, would you say something?
I really hope we all would. And yet we’re shy about the most dangerous thing of all – car safety. We’re kind of inconsistent creatures, us humans, aren’t we?
I completely agree with you. I tend to react in a pretty emotional way when people criticize me. Especially when they happen to be touching my child at the time. Holding my baby’s hand and telling me she is too cold or something of the like. It rattles me. But you are right being calm and responding politely would be a better thing to do.
However, what I took away from this post is that your friend let this woman drive off with her child not buckled into the seat. After reading the first few comments I saw that she called the police but the police are the wrong people to call. She needed to call Child Protective Services (or whatever the equivalent in Canada is). They are the ones that deal with these kinds of things. They are the ones that can help. They are the ones that can monitor the family.
As adults, as people, as adults we have the obligation to help. Because when that kid goes flying through the window at 65 miles per hour it is on everyone who saw, who knew she drove that way and did not call. Oh sure it is on the mother who put her there – no doubt. But when we do not call it is on us too. Now, granted the first time they go out to this person’s house all they do is say “You have to put that child in the car seat.” but if people keep calling about it they will do something.
My friend is a car seat technician and former foster parent. I’m sure if she did call the police (rather than CPS), it is because she knew that was the appropriate thing to do here.
Oops!! Apology below. I wrote it before I even saw your response. Again, my apologies.
One more thing. I just reread this and it sounds like I am criticizing your friend but I’m not. She called the police. They should have asked her to file a CPS report. She has no way of knowing that CPS is a better place to report this if they do not tell her. I apologize for sounding like she was wrong. I was reacting more to the commenters who were saying it is no one’s business and to stay out of it. I hate that attitude. When a child is being hurt or is in danger it is everyone’s business.
No need to apologize! The right thing to do is so different from one place to the next and also depends so much on the effectiveness of each of those agencies/organizations in any given jurisdiction. That compounded with vastly varying opinions on whether it is right to intervene or not makes it very complicated waters to navigate.
That is so true. And I suppose in the moment the police are great – if they care enough to do anything. But later a call to CPS is good as well. Because then they can start a file and if everyone calls when something is going on they will know who and when to investigate.
The thing about the varying opinions on whether we should or should not intervene has me thinking. I am with family today but tonight I think I will write my own post on the subject of intervening. For now I will just say that the children need us.
As a car seat tech myself, I can say that I, too, feel an ethical obligation to correct misinformation when it is presented by another parent on one of my parenting boards or if I see one of my friends in a situation with mis-use or non-use of a child restraint. A complete stranger, on the other hand, I refrain from intervening unless they they are asking for help (i.e. in the middle of a store and talking w/ their partner about a car seat question)…then I’ll butt in.
Some states in the United States do have hotlines that you can call for mis-use or non-use.
I like the distinction that Spilt Milk has made between “parenting choices” and the law. For example, it is a parent’s choice to feed his/her baby formula or breast milk. But the law dictates that you DO have to feed your baby (regardless if it is expensive, or inconvenient, etc.).
I think this is where I would draw the line if I were asked to, too.
for the record. I totally should have read this post two weeks ago. I am really bad at opening my mouth out of anger without thinking in MANY situations. Great post! Thank you so much for sharing it!
The kid isn’t actually IN imminent danger, though. There’s a difference between a woman fixing to drive her kids off a cliff and one who is frustrated by a tantruming child and drives home without strapping the screamer down first.
The first woman is pretty much certain to kill the kid, and the second stands much less than a one-percent chance of doing the same.
MY GOD HOW COULD SHE?! is sort of a typical, but not especially helpful, reaction to the situation. One wonders how this discussion will strike us all in thirty years time. Seems reasonable to me to say that history doesn’t always view our narrowminded holier-than-thou tendencies all that kindly in the long run.
So, yeah. Call CPS. That’ll work.
Calling CPS may not work. But it is what you can do. If you see a child in danger you should call. Maybe that family has been called in 10 other times and this will finally be the time they go out and look. Maybe that family is being investigated and this will be the time CPS actually has proof and can do something. You don’t know. But if you do not call they cannot get help. And really what does it take from you to call? Does it really inconvenience you that much that you cannot make a simple phone call to try and help a child? Come on!
The assumption that CPS generally offers what you could call “help” is worth questioning.
“Maybe” every family you see is being investigated and the proper authorities are all just waiting for the least little tip-off to round us all up and institutionalize our kids with professionals who actually know what they’re doing.
Moms are mostly just amateur hacks.
Should we as mothers act as policemen? I’m just not interested in that sort of community dynamic, but I know it’s loads of weird fun for the mommies at the top of the heap.
What I do suspect is that Annie’s buddy just lost any sort of opportunity to influence that mom over the long-run.
She just made herself “someone to be avoided even if it means the kids never go to the pool again.”
Boozehound, I know exactly how much of a problem CPS can be. I know exactly how much they do not necessarily care. I know exactly how much trouble they can call in the lives of a good person. I also know exactly how much children need us to be looking out for them and calling CPS for them when people see children being endangered or abused. If you stop by my blog you will see what I mean.
Thank you. I am not interested in living in a police state mentality. I attachment parent, as in, do not put my baby down for the 1st year. But then later I follow a child-led philosophy. We have gone to other countries where there are no seat belts in the vehicle. When in Rome…is my thought. I also grew up in the age of 4,5,6 kids pilled in the back seat with my little sister at my mom’s feet in the front seat. We have bought into the research that has been provided by car seat manufacturer, akin to Pharma’s “research” on a certain drug. We are good citizen’s and DO use carseats and follow all of the other rules of the road. One day, I ran into the bank to make quick withdrawl. I left my 2 young children buckled. I was back in less than 2 minutes. They were within eyeview the whole time, as the whole terminal is glass. When we got home, the police showed up to tell me that what I had done was illegal and someone had reported me. I just don’t think it is anyone’s business why I made that judgement call.
As far as the helmet thing, I’m more talking about the sheer hassle involved in locating the properly sized helmet for each kid; getting all their shoes and pants on can be a daunting enough task that tracking down/putting on four or five helmets can be the thing that makes you say, “fine, just play XBox.”
There’s a lot of reasons kids sit around on their butts more than they did when I was a kid. The idea that the acceptable number of childhood accidents and fatalities is *zero* is a big one.
The acceptable number of childhood accidents and fatalities that I could have prevented by simply opening my mouth *is* zero, as far as I’m concerned.
Ah, the miracles we ascribe to our opened mouths.
While some people may use safety concerns as excuses for a sedentary life style, I would prefer to remain active and live life, but manage the risk. Use seatbelts and child seats to reduce risk in cars, wear helmets to reduce risk on bikes, wear life jackets when on the water… Accidents happen, and fatalities will too, but a lot of them can be prevented with a minimal amount of effort.
Fair comment
, but I couldn’t live with myself if all I had to do was open my mouth and piss someone off in order to possibly prevent an injury.
This is “the friend” weighing in. As many of you have pointed out, context is everything.
The swimming lessons were first thing in the morning. The child (three year old girl) had a private swimming lesson every week. The parents drove in a Mercedes Benz SUV with a child restraint installed in the rear. The child was involved in a full-blown tantrum. Her parents were having a great deal of difficulty managing her and their manhandling of her before she was put in the car was almost worthy of a call to the Children’s Aid Society.
I banged on the driver’s side window as it was pulling out of the parking lot (with the little girl standing on the back seat) and said, “In Ontario, your child is required to be in a car seat.” As they had Quebec license plates, I thought this might be a nice way to remind them about their legal obligations in a neighbouring province. The message was delivered as non-confrontationally as possible. When they made no move to change the status quo, I phoned the police.
I don’t regret my actions – although I admit I might have done it a little differently if I’d had more time to think – but I hope the parents will remember that their child’s safety supersedes the challenges of trying to strap a child – mid-tantrum – into a car seat (I’ve had to do it, it’s not fun). The breastfeeding comment was completely irrelevant and irrational, and as they had already left the parking lot while I was trying to connect the two issues (car seats, breastfeeding), I did not have the time (nor do I have the inclination) to respond.
Having read the comment from your friend, I wonder if this wasn’t an Ontario/Quebec thing. If you think that mamas go at it, try playing that provincial card.
I live in Quebec and work in Ontario. I don’t find it to be a big deal. It was a bigger deal when I was younger. But I don’t find it is now.
A few related links worth sharing…
When butting your nose into others business pays off: Life jackets credited with saving novice paddlers after canoe flips (thanks to coffeewithjulie for sharing this link).
When minding your own business hurts a child: One Girl’s Story (thank you to Upstatemomof3 for writing this post).
Really interesting discussion! I think where a lot of people have difficulty with the intervention is that it is unlikely that your friend would have knocked on the window and alerted the family if an adult wasn’t wearing a seat belt. That’s also a legal issue.
However, when it comes to children, often people do act as though everything is their business. And I’m sure the biggest part of that is because adults make their choices, whereas children are subjected to those choices and don’t really have a say.
But I think that it’s hard to know what was in the mother’s mind in this scenario. Was she really driving off? Or was she just driving enough to let her child know they were leaving and was she going to buckle her up before she got out of the carpark and on to the road? It’s impossible to know. I think her inappropriate (and obviously defensive) comment was made because she probably was feeling what most parents do from time to time – that other parents/strangers/members of the community are always very quick to assume the absolute worst of their parenting. Wouldn’t it be better to assume the best possible motives given the information at hand, rather than the worst?
People intervene with kids because kids can’t advocate for themselves. An adult doesn’t have a seatbelt? That’s their active decision. And id wager a guess that the adult has at least a modicum of an idea that not wearing a seatbelt is risky. Kids aren’t able to make informed decisions like that for a plethora of reasons. That’s why people jump to advocate for them.
While I am a firm believer in giving the benefit if the doubt, in some instances it simply isn’t appropriate. This parent was putting the child at risk because it was the easy way out. I know, I’ve been there! We went through six months of kicking, screaming, the whole gamut every time we put DS onto his seat. The van never moved until he was buckled. Even if she was simply driving around the lot until the child calmed down it is still unsafe and should not have happened! I applaud “the troublesome friend” for stepping in an educating the other parent and for phoning the police. Maybe an officer was able to get through to her.
I think reminding the parents that child seats are not only the law but save lives is the right thing to do. I bite my tongue when I see parents allowing their small children to ride bikes or scooter with no helmets. Worse, I will NOT allow my son to play with a class mate outside of school because her father repeatly picks her up from school and allows her to ride in the FRONT seat of the car with no seat belt. She is only 4 yrs old.
Plain and simple, risking your child’s safety is wrong. We are the parents, we need to act as such.
(ps. Breastfeeding for 2 yrs and beyond is great! Keep going, just tune out the incorrect crap about stopping. )
I just dealt with full-blown tantrum resulting in repeated escapes from my 3YO’s booster seat, on the way home from the grocery store. I had to pull over three times because of my little Houdini. It took an hour to make it home…but I could not, not, not drive the car while my daughter wandered around the backseat totally unrestrained. I get the desire to just end the standoff as quickly as possible and get the hell outta Dodge–but that personal desire is just less important than your kid’s needs. I’m with “troublesome friend” all the way here.
this is one of many reasons my 4 YO is still in a 5 point harness. once i get him in the car seat during a full blown tantrum, he can’t get out. it’s a perk of the extended harnessing! i agree, i will not drive with my LOs not secured no matter what!
very thought provoking post and comments, on a range of topics!
So, who SHOULD we contact if we see someone driving with an unrestrained child, or using carseats/boosters incorrectly? That’s what I’m still not sure of. The police? The non-emergency number? About a year ago we were driving on the 401 in the GTA (so, traffic was going about 120 km/hr). We saw a child about 8 or 9 STANDING in the back seat, facing the back of the car (looking at the other passengers, all adults). As we drove by we frantically gestured to them to get the boy to sit down. The older man in the passenger seat gestured/waved back with an annoyed look on his face, like “mind your own business”. My husband thought 911 would be the best number to call, as the boy was in real danger. But, was it “immediate”? Was it an emergency? Or would it only have been an emergency if an accident occurred and the boy was thrown out of the car? As it happened, due to the flow of traffic we were unable to get in a position to see the plate, and were soon separated from the other vehicle. With no info I didn’t feel I could call the police, esp. 911. Still, I feel awful that something could happen to that child, being allowed to ride in a car like that at high speeds on a major highway.
Hm, I’m waffling on this one. I do think that it is the right thing to do to say something, but if I were the parent having a bad moment and for whatever reason didn’t buckle my child in (which I can’t imagine doing–I have had plenty of really bad moments, but being restrained in a moving car has always been non-negotiable in my family) I can only imagine that being called out would just make me feel angry and defensive and might not lead to the desired outcome.
But then again, I am baffled by people who in 2010 don’t have their kids buckled up in the car. I’m not talking about all the sometimes overwhelming details of figuring out which car seat or positioning or installation method is best or most appropriate for your child’s age and height and weight. I’m talking about the basic use of a SEAT BELT. I have been riding behind cars many times where 3- and 4-year-old children are standing up in the backseat looking out. At that age, yes, a child safety seat is still best, but even a seat belt (which I assume the car came with) would be better than NOTHING.
Still, I think it if were me in the position of saying something, I’d pretend as though it was just a mistake. Knock-knock-knock “Oh, excuse me, did you realize your child never buckled herself in?” said with a smile as if to imply that of COURSE the parent didn’t know. And I’d hope that social norms would cause the parent to get that child restrained.
Of course, when you’re dealing with jerks, social norms don’t matter so much, so who knows if it would work. And from your friend’s explanation it sounds like there was more going on here than simple ignorance or misunderstanding of the law.
That is exactly what my husband said. He would have gone up to the car and said – hey, did you know she never made it into the car seat. I know how crazy it can get it has happened to us. Which it hasn’t – we’ve never driven away with the kids not buckled in but I have put the car in reverse and had my son (who is five and buckles himself) say “wait! I’m not buckled yet!”
I don’t think I can add anything to this discussion that hasn’t already been said. I think I would have stood there with my jaw on the ground as that mother drove away with her unrestrained child in the back seat.
I try so hard to understand the things parents do… I write about childrens health and immune systems so I come across a lot of parents doing things that endanger their child’s health in a less obvious way and I always try to give the benefit of the doubt because a lot of the time the parent’s simply aren’t aware or informed that what they are doing is detrimental. That’s why I love educating parents about those things.
But a kid in the car without a car seat?? How do you justify that? Is there anyone on the planet that doesn’t know that not wearing a seat belt in extremely dangerous? Is there anyone on the planet that doesn’t know that most accidents happen within 2 miles of the home? How do you give the benefit of the doubt to that? Is that mother really that ignorant that she is saying to herself ‘oh, nothings going to happen’? Do you think if she were made to watch a video with a crash test dummy toddler being launched across the car and out the windshield, she would change? It just makes me want to cry, really.
A parent putting their child in a car without a car seat is endangering their child and it warrants a call to CAS. I’m a teacher, and at our school we would report this behaviour to CAS. We also report parents routinely picking up/dropping off their children with the kids not wearing seat belts. CAS will contact the family, and make sure they are made aware of the safety legislations, help get them hooked up with a car seat if necessary, and also with instructions regarding safe installation.
My first thought was this was most likely an extended family member taking their family member to the pool. Yes, I know how important it is to have appropriate car seats for children but it is funny how automatic it is to assume these were the actual parents.
I read this post and comments, as well as the post on Raising My Boychick and comments. I left this comment on Arwyn’s blog yesterday, and Annie suggested leaving the comment here as well.
I’ve been reading and thinking about this off and on all day. I’m not sure what I would have done. I have to admit that I am surprised, sometimes shocked, sometimes angry, to see kids not buckled in. When we lived in Phoenix, one of our neighbors drove her kids over to her sister’s house without having them strapped in. Her sister lived two streets up and she did not have to go on any major roads (it was the same subdivision, if that makes more sense?). For a long time I thought she was awful for doing that. But once I figured out she was just going to her sister’s, it just didn’t bother me. It was maybe not the best decision, maybe not the one I would have made, but also not all that dangerous. So did I say anything? Nope. And I would not have called CPS or the police, either.
I think the seatbelt thing makes it tricky because it is a law, because it IS safer, because it seems so easy and simple on the surface. I personally do not drive without my kids being buckled in. And yet, there have been times that I was so frazzled and thought someone else strapped the kids in that I ended up driving with a kid not strapped in! Now they are older and do their own straps, so we have a phrase we use to indicate that everyone is strapped in. My husband is a bit more anal about seatbelts than I am. We live in the country now. Our road is not busy (that’s an understatement! We see as many horse and buggies as we do cars, and let me tell you the Amish let pretty young kids drive those buggies and with NO seatbelts! haha). So sometimes we get to the mailbox and I let the kids get unstrapped before I turn into our driveway, if there is no one else coming. I still want them to sit down, however. My husband doesn’t want their straps off until we are in our driveway (it’s about 3/10 of a mile long). We let them “drive” on the driveway. Is that all unsafe? I don’t know. I can see how it would look that way to others. Honestly, I think that is what my husband is worried about at that point. It’s not a safety issue when you are on a country road and there is no one else in sight and you have 10 more feet to drive before you turn into your driveway!
Anyway, the seatbelt thing is trickier than most other things, I think. I’ve been on the receiving end of comments for having barefoot kids and I can tell you I do NOT like it. Most of the time, though, it’s a benign comment, like “Where are your shoes?” Usually the shoes are right in my hand as the kids HAD the shoes on, but their feet got hot. I simply say that I have their shoes and sometimes I mention that their feet get hot. Perhaps these people judge or roll their eyes something, but usually all they do is ask about the shoes.
However, one day we were all at Wal-Mart doing the self-checkout. The kids started running around and being generally wild, so I decided to get out of the store fast and let my husband finish checking out. While we were in the store, my then 3 year old had taken off her shoes. She had also taken off her sweater. I didn’t have time to get her shoes on (her dad had them) because I was too upset about the wildness that didn’t stop when I asked them to stop. I didn’t think about the sweater until we were already in the parking lot. I was, of course, holding their hands, so was unable to put her sweater on her (not that she was cold or asking for it!)
So here I am walking in the Wal-Mart parking lot with a barefoot princess. She was cute, but barefoot and no sweater and it was about 40 degrees or so. This lady asks where her shoes are. At first I thought it was the benign question. But then she starts getting angrier and telling me that it’s “only 40 degrees out” and she should have shoes on. I start to explain about the hot feet and that she doesn’t want her shoes, and she says I am the mom and I need to make her wear her shoes. Nevermind that her feet were NOT cold. Nevermind the wildness in the store, nevermind that my husband was coming and had her shoes. She also asked if I had a coat for her and offered to go buy one. Eventually I told her it was none of her business and that by yelling at me she was making me take even longer to get to the car. The kids were confused and upset because some stranger was yelling at their mom.
So while I can see that it is important to look out for kids and help them out of abusive situations and just look out for kids, in general, there is a fine, fine balance there. And helping, with love and concern, is always, always better than yelling, judging, head shaking, eye rolling, etc. We so often do not have a clue what is going on that it is hard to figure out what to do. Sometimes doing nothing is better, and sometime it isn’t. It’s a tough call. I don’t fault your friend for trying, for worrying, for being concerned. But I also don’t fault the woman for responding with an emotional and unhelpful comment. It is possible that at that moment, the mom was so angry that having her child unstrapped in the car was perhaps safer than forcing her child her seat. I, too, have forced my kids in mid-tantrum. It is NOT fun. It is NOT easy. It is not easy to do it and remain calm and gentle. I have at times been too rough with them. Perhaps this mother was making the best decision she could at the time? And since the dad was there, it was also his decision, right?
OK, now that I finished my novel, I’m not sure if I should post my comment here or on Annie’s blog?? I read both posts and comments, so my comment is really about both. Ah well, if I made a blog etiquette mistake, I hope you all will forgive me.
That was a great comment from craphead. This post has got me thinking about the way I react (or don’t) to the things I see everyday. It seems there is a fine line, but I am not sure where that is. I just want to say that as far as the helmet thing goes (and I know Annie has written on this before) seriously it is almost an immediate danger. I am a cyclist myself and had a very bad head injury as a child that affected me for years because I wasn’t wearing a helmet. Another friend of mine’s life was saved in 5th grade by a helmet. Yes they are a PITA (I know I put one on a 15 mo old all the time) but seriously Id rather be the ass than have someone’s life taken or destroyed. Its not as tho people are really choosing between an x-box and a helmet. If ur kids won’t wear safety gear take them for a walk or play basketball. Everyone who rides bikes falls, some falls are worse than others, but the danger is great.
Safety cannot be taken for granted…head injuries are devastating and kids need to be protected from these injuries if at all possible…sometimes it requires them to be protected from their own parents as well.
Unfortunately in today’s world you are at risk when you but-in to someone else’s ‘space’ especially another parent’s. I am not surprised by the reaction of both moms. Both were upset but one was negligent no matter how you view it.
I just did a very short piece on criticism and learning how to deal with it on one of my blog today. When criticized try not to react out of anger (not easy) but try to learn from it and move on to a better place.
I used to work at Starbucks in the drive thru and I saw car seat violations all of the time and I started taking license plates and I called the police and they said there was nothing they could do unless they witnessed it themselves.
Unbelievable! I don’t even understand how the woman could equate the two in her head.
all i’m saying is that if someone banged on my car for anything short of “you’re about to run over me” or “excuse me, but your baby is on the roof,” i wouldn’t have reacted as well, especially if dealing with a full blown tantrum. then again, i’d never have tossed a kid in the car without buckling them in properly.
I had a discussion like this with my in-laws. I was told we were no longer considered family for quite a while after that and I was told that because I wasn’t a mom, I had no business telling anybody how to take care of a child. I was also told that it wasn’t my child and therefore I had no business saying anything about the fact that the child was not in a car seat and that it was their decision as his parents as to whether to put him in his car seat or not. I love my nephew and don’t want to see him be put in danger or get hurt because people don’t feel like putting him in a child safety seat. I am also a state mandated reporter; if I don’t report, I could be fined and be looking at jail time; not something I am ok with either.
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