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Thursday
Sep152011

Is shame a barrier to social change?

I've had a lot of interesting conversations over the past few days about shame, guilt, and social change. Without going into excruciating detail, I heard a lot of people say that calls for formula marketing to be restricted makes formula feeding moms feel shamed because if formula marketing needs to be restricted, then that means that formula is bad, which means that formula feeding moms are doing something wrong.

Some people believe that if you feel shame or guilt that it is your own fault because no one can make you feel guilty except you. While I do think a lot of guilt comes from within, I also know that societal norms and expectations are contributors to feelings of guilt and shame.

We want the world to change. We need the world to change. That means, sometimes, criticizing the way that things are done now and advocating for a better way of doing them. Is that possible though, without making people feel guilt and shame?


  • If we advocate for more support for breastfeeding mothers, does that equate to shaming every mother who used formula?

  • If we advocate for more midwives and other conditions that will increase the natural birth rate, does that equate to shaming every mother who had a c-section?

  • If we advocate for easier and more affordable access to healthy foods, does that equate to shaming every person who ever indulges in junk food or fast food?

  • If we advocate for improved public transportation, does that equate to shaming people who drive their cars to work?

  • If we say that chocolate bars should not be available for purchase in schools, does that amount to shaming every parent who every put a piece of chocolate in their child's lunch?

  • If we advocate for an end to wars, does that equate to shaming everyone who has ever served in the armed forces?

  • If we advocate for better treatment of animals, does that equate to shaming everyone who ever ate factory farmed meat?

  • If we advocate for improved educational opportunities, does that equate to shaming everyone who didn't graduate from high school?

  • If we advocate for better maternity leave, does that equate to judging every woman who went back to work?

  • If we advocate for better prevention of teen pregnancy, does that equate to shaming everyone who did get pregnant as a teenager?


We live in an imperfect world. We all make choices, on a daily basis, with imperfect information and in imperfect conditions. Every single day, I make choices that I wish I didn't have to make. Every single day, I try to make better choices. It is a balancing act between progress and reality. No one is perfect. No one should be expected to be perfect. No one needs to feel guilt or shame for being imperfect.

Ultimately, at the end of a conversation that I was finding very frustrating, one in which I raised many of the examples that I listed above, I concluded:

Because, really, any time we argue for better societal conditions, it means that we are saying HOW MUCH WE ALL SUCK. Let's judge ourselves.


Is that really the world we want to live in? One where we are afraid to advocate for change because it makes us feel guilt and shame?

Ultimately, on the breastfeeding issue, I think the problem at the moment is that there is too much pressure to breastfeed and not enough support for breastfeeding. Moms are told that they must breastfeed. More than 90% of moms in Canada initiate breastfeeding (either because they wanted to or because they felt forced into it). But most of them do not meet their own breastfeeding goals. I think there are enough messages out there telling moms how important it is to breastfeed. Perhaps even too many. However, there is too little real breastfeeding support. Women who want to breastfeed are still undermined every day by the many societal barriers to breastfeeding or the "booby traps".

But how do we get there? How do we get to a place where we can ask the world to change without making the people who live in that world feel shame?

Image credit: ToastyKen on flickr

« Trials and Tribulations of Toddlers | Main | Breastfeeding...just because »

Reader Comments (164)

chelsea:

So many people have horrible hospital experiences, on both sides. I had the opposite problem - I had nurses forcing formula on my baby when I didn't want or need that. I think too many of them lose sight of the fact that they are there to support the mom.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

Great comment BalancingJane. Thank you for weighing in.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

Thank you Melissa.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

Kathy:

I agree. I think if we are accepting of ourselves and of others, these conversations are easier. I always try to enter conversations from that place and find that it makes for a much more productive conversation if everyone does. Insecurity and judgment can make conversations that would otherwise be productive turn nasty and unproductive.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

What I love about the LLL is that they want to empower mothers. Not tell them what to do, but support and inform them. With correct information and support women can make up their own mind about decisions that affect their family. Sometimes making your own choices different from others is deemed to be critizism, yes. But that shouldn't stop you from doing what feels right.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterLinda Rikkers

Thanks Melissa. I'll be writing about Milk Sharing Week here too. :)

Here is the link to the facebook page Melissa mentioned if others are interested: http://www.facebook.com/NoInfantFormulaAdsOnFB

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

"when a discussion about predatory marketing then turns into a discussion about individual choice, the predatory marketing is off the hook again"

EXACTLY!

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

Thank you Allison. I really appreciate your comment.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

I read through most of the comments, but not all. Has anyone mentioned James Akre already? The problem about breastfeeding http://www.health-e-learning.com/resource/watch?pid=2
He says: it's not women who breastfeed, it's society. Though this might not be entirely true, but partially at least. We don't live in a bf-supportive society. I assume it's no different in the States... (I live in the Netherlands)

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterLinda Rikkers

The difference is between focusing on change and truth and positivity vs focusing on blame, stereotypes and negativity.
I was a teen mother. I advocate for reducing teen pregnancy rates. I do not support shaming statements like "all teen parents x and y". There's a difference.
I breastfeed. I advocate for breastfeeding. I do not support shaming statements like "if you don't breastfeed, you are neglecting your baby" or "all formula feeding parents x and y."

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterradmama

I don't think you can compare formula marketing to a pedophile manual. Formula does not victimize children. Formula feeding is not against the law.

I get where you are coming from in saying that maybe Babble should reconsider what companies it accepts advertising from. But I also think that while Babble targets moms, Babble is first and foremost a business intended to make money.

It's just that idea of banning formula ads makes me extremely uncomfortable. What's next, banning ads for fast food? Or alcohol? Anything cooked by Paula Deen? For craptastic Payless shoes with Dora on them? That horrible "I'm too pretty..." JCP shirt? There are plenty of things that are bad for you or borderline offensive or whatever other words you want to use, but I don't think banning things in the long run is helpful. For example, recently I read about a school that BANNED bag lunches. The principal felt that kids were bringing too much unhealthy food in their lunches and made it a requirment that everyone buy. Which is wrong on so many levels, but how does that teach kids about healthy cooking and meal planning and eating? I can't comment on Canada, but I think banning things gets a little out of control in the US.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterKayris

Kayris:

I wasn't comparing formula marketing to a pedophile manual. I was comparing the scenario, in that some people have yelled "censorship" in both cases, when really what people were asking for wasn't censorship, but a different, ethics-based business decision. Similarly, in the case of that horrible JCP shirt, the blogosphere advocated for its removal, and JC Penney listened. Just as we asked Evenflo to remove a video that was undermining breastfeeding moms and they listened. Just as we asked Motrin to remove an ad that was insulting to babywearing moms and they listened.

I think that if formula companies were more responsible in their marketing and/or if the government regulated the way that they advertise their products, then perhaps we wouldn't need to advocate for "no formula ads" or ask companies like Babble, BlogHer, major newspapers, parenting magazines and others to not run such ads. I think that if companies and governments were ensuring that mothers are not undermined, then this wouldn't have to be a battle between moms. It shouldn't be a battle between moms.

If breastfeeding mothers were truly supported, if human milk and formula were both available for supplementation for moms who are not able to breastfeed, then I don't think this would need to be such a divisive issue.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

Thank you so much for your perspective, Kayris. I understand your point of view and even agree to a certain extent, but just a little bit. The optimist in me likes to think that entities (individuals, corporations) would ultimate act with the best interest of the greater good in mind, but realist in me knows that this is not always the case.

While it is true that formula does not victimize children, formula marketing does. Not only does it victimize children, it victimizes society as a whole. Yes, we know that formula sustains life; we know that formula is a viable alternative for some families who cannot breastfeed for whatever reason. But we also know that formula is not the innocuous breastmilk substitute that formula marketing would have us believe. We also know that the childbearing year is the single-most point in our adult lives when we are most open to learning knew things and exploring a different way. It is also the point in our lives when we are most vulnerable, as we're needing to trust in our minds, bodies, and spirits in a whole new way. Formula marketers are highly aware of this fact and play on our fears at this time in our lives when we question ourselves so heavily.

The act of censoring speech is, indeed, a slippery slope, but when it comes to something that has wide-reaching branches in our societal bush, we really need to heavily evaluate the consequences of such speech. In our corporate-driven consumerism society, it has been shown that we cannot rely entirely on self-regulation, especially on such an important issue as the creation of life. The choices we make affect the long-term quality of life for not only the individual, but for the entirety of society and certain external influences (aka formula marketers) seeking to affect those choices are driven by financial greed, instead of the betterment of the whole.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMelissa @ Nurture Normally

I'm clearly having a time being concise today.

I absolutely believe that marketing and product labeling should be more transparent. For example, a bag of bread that says "made with wheat flour" could mean that it has 10% wheat flour and the rest is white crap. It's misleading and you have to look at the ingredients to know that. Another example is the fruit snacks my MIL bought my kids and told them "these are good for you" because they say fruit on the label and have vitamin C in them. When my husband showed her the package and explained that the snacks are actually mostly corn syrup and artificial coloring and that cans of diet coke have a "heart healthy" emblem on the can because it's fat free, doesn't mean they are good for you, she was incensed. "That's a trick! They trick you!" I've fallen for it myself. I once bought a box of juice pouches called "honest Kids" that was organic juice and advertised as less sugar than other leading brands. I was in a huge hurry, didn't have time to look at the packaging, it was on sale and situated right next to the 100% juice with no added sugar that I usually buy. So imagine my horror when I realized it was something like 10% juice made with organic sugar! I agree that marketing is powerful, that it's often misleading. I AGREE. I'm a veterinary professional and can't tell you how many times clients say they are feeding a certain food (won't mention the brand here) that is actually a poor food with a fantastic marketing campaign-great looking packaging, effective commercials, cute animals. It works and people are usually surprised when we break down the food into what it really is.

I also agree that there is nothing wrong with asking companies to make better choices with whom they choose to do business with and their business practices, but it means more when they do it because they want to and not because they have to. My husband's company sought out a corrugated supplier that makes 100% recycled product and uses energy from incinerated waste to power their facility. They make products for cars from sustainable materials. When the lighting in one of the warehouses needed new lighting, they went with something more energy efficient and environmentally friendly. Sure, I'm sure there are some sort of tax credits somewhere as an incentive, but it means more to me as a stockholder that the company makes this decisions voluntarily.

I just feel that the US has too much legislation as it is. It's frequently thrown together without regard to longterm success. For example, there is a federal ban on the use of lead in children;s jewelry, but overseas manufacturers are now using cadmium which is also toxic. A lot of the legislation in the US is frankly unenforcable. I don't want my representatives wasting their time trying to make it illegal to smoke in your own home or spank your children--I want them to make paid maternity leave a reality for low income mothers who use formula because they have to go back to their minimum wage job after 6 weeks. I want them to make treatment available for the drug addicted mothers. It's not a matter of if these babies are breastfed or formula fed, it's a matter of if they are fed at all.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterKayris

Kayris:

I agree that legislation absolutely needs to address the root of problems, not just the symptoms. I think that is what you were trying to say. Hope I understood this time.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

What you say is fine and thoughtful. But I just have to cringe at the whole "it takes a village to raise a child" line that is so completely overused. That is some weird African thing Hillary Clinton said. I don't live in a village. I live in a suburb. It takes a FAMILY to raise a child and some contract out the care to workers, not "villagers." The grandparents are great because they're part of the family. I wish I had that option, to be sure.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMrsRochester

I don't think it is necessarily bad to feel shame or guilt, it is how we are taught to deal with it. I can't pretend that I never have a sexist/racist/ableist/prejudiced thought. Sometimes I say stupid things, but I make a conscious effort not to get defensive when someone else points it out. If I am feeling shame or guilt, it is because something is wrong. And the question I then have to ask myself is, what am I going to do about it? Sometimes the solution is personal, but in our very individualistic society people often put too much blame on themselves, and not enough on the oppressive systems that dictate our lives. It can be tricky, but my goal is to support and empower myself and other people to do what is best for all of us. Sure, people will feel shame and guilt, but we should help one another deal with it constructively instead of using it as an excuse to shut down or give up.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMommyAnarchy

I don't think there is an honest consensus on the science of whether daycare is good, bad or neutral for infants. But frankly I don't need a scientific study to show me that a baby belongs with its mother.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMrsRochester

Overused or not, I love the concept. We have blood relatives we are certainly an important part of our children's lives, but we also have many friends and neighbours that care about our children, have taught them so much, and are there to support us when we need that support.

We have friends who have had the same live-in nanny for more than 5 years and although she is paid, she is also a critical part of those children's lives. Our own son's preschool teacher, who he was with for 2 years and who was the first person outside of our family to care for him, is still an incredibly important person to him and to our family.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

Your comment was probably the most thought-provoking for me, but I have to clarify that I don't begrudge people help or deny that they might need help, nor am I under the illusion that anyone is 100% "self made"...I just am not on board with the notion that it is the government's job to help. I concede that there are many ways to be "a good parent, citizen, and empowered woman" but it's not government's job to help people do this. Trust me, this is not help you want because the help does not come without strings attached. Wouldn't you rather be a free agent or have help from private people in the community, or family members who sincerely care?

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMrsRochester

I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned support. If those of us who make decisions that fly against the current social expectation have a place to go where we can express our frustrations or shortcomings and learn from our peers, or the ones who've gone before us, learned something and now share that wisdom with others, then I think that information sharing and support can lead to grand things.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMelodie

P.S....I am not "running up against" any problem, personally, because I don't go around telling people what to do in their life at the person to person level. However, when discussing ideas and concepts in a forum, I will state my opinion. A person who is going to feel shamed or bad by what some other person writes on an internet website has bigger issues than the topic being discussed, or, like a commenter down the pike, Kate, I think, alluded to, might be feeling some feeling because there is a ring of truth to it that is touching them.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMrsRochester

I have to add that I get lots of *shame* for having a c section - hurtful, uncaring remarks. I did what my doctor suggested and what I felt at the time was the best situation. My sister in law and mother in law are great at adding sly comments in, like that will change the situation. I have read lots on c sections now, and would maybe have made a different choice, maybe not. I didn't, and while educating others is fine, shaming me will do nothing to change the situation.

Additionally, as a teacher, shaming is a "no-no." Teaching programs teach that shaming people destroys relationships and causes distrust. Educating is fine, shaming (normally accompanied by cruelty) is not.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterLauralee

Great post, Annie! I don't have the answers, but I can share my own experience with shame and guilt related to breastfeeding and formula. I became a breastfeeding advocate on my (unsuccessful) journey to nurse my first baby. She couldn't latch and I had significant supply issues, both of wish caused me to seek out information and support online. In fact, that's how I first came across this blog, and many of my other favourites. I had to bottle feed, supplement with formula and eventually gave up pumping and switch entirely to formula. I felt shame and guilt as a result of all those things.

Before my challenges I knew I was "supposed" because "breast is best" but didn't have a full understanding of the benefts of breasting and the risks of formula. As I read and learned more, I felt terrible guilt for not being able to provide what was best for my baby . I cried reading factual information and felt like it was a personal attack. I cried even more reading some of the judgemental breastfeeding "support" you can find online. But eventually, reason won out. I knew I had done the best I could given my situation, I knew the information wasn't personal, I knew that societal change is required and that I had to get past my shame and guilt to help others. So, eventually the guilt/shame faded away (it's still there at times, but in the background).

Anyway, my point is that when you're talking about what's best for your kids, you're always going to feel guilty if you did something other than "the best". But you can acknowledge that emotional reaction, acknowledge that you made the best decision you could given your situation and/or the information/support you had, and move past that to see the new information and see where change is needed and work toward that change. It's not easy to move beyond guilt and shame and I have no idea how to help others do so, but it is possible.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterRebecca

exactly what i was thinking, thanks for articulating it for me.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commentermelia

Wow - look at that nail getting smacked on the head:
"Ultimately, on the breastfeeding issue, I think the problem at the moment is that there is too much pressure to breastfeed and not enough support for breastfeeding. "

I LOVE that quote because I think the lack of support is all too often at the crux of the problem for mothers attempting to breastfeed. I believe there are other issues at hand with the large failure in breastfeeding rates (i.e. in particular, the lack of support for mothers going BACK to the office), but I think what you quoted is one of the primary reasons.

The entire convoluted argument on Babble had me reeling and feeling very, very sad. I never jumped in the fray because I was not sure where to begin.

I don't always agree with you, Annie. But on this one, I completely agree with you. It takes big brass balls to stand tall with what you believe in -- particularly in this new brave world of social media where FAR too often popularity and page views and simple site traffic drives the result.

And finally..... what formula companies do in developing countries is downright disgusting. They completely throw all things ethical directly into the face of humanity. My husband is from India and frankly, I am so goddamned sick and tired of watching Western companies take advantage of folks who have no resources - both financial and intellectual.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commentercagey (Kelli Oliver George)

This whole discussion reminds me of Diane Weissinger's Watch Your Language article: http://www.bobrow.net/kimberly/birth/BFLanguage.html It was published in 1996, and we're still having this discussion, it seems bizarre and stupid that we the internet haven't got the message yet in all that time!

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterTracy

I really feel that it is up to us to give parents the information and then wait and let them either throw it out or use it. But only information, or resources. To keep *strong* opinions and stories to ourselves UNLESS the mother asks.
I had my first son 6 years ago. I had an uphill battle with breastfeeding that I eventually overcame by working the *hardest* that I *ever* have. I had LC's and Nurses tell me that I should supplement because he was losing weight, that my reluctance to formula feed was causing him brain damage from malnutrition…and after hearing that I did start to supplement and almost lost my nursing relationship until a LLL leader (and now amazing friend) told me "you dont have to nurse for nutrition you know, you can nurse for comfort." - That information is what changed the game for me and breastfeeding relationship with all 3 of my kids (2 to come).
I went to so many LLL meetings to share my story, to cry with other moms who wanted to nurse so badly, to give support. I went over to mothers houses to watch other children while they rested after being up all night with an infant having starting issues. I helped moms pick out pumps and bottles, and talked to them about foods that decreased gas. I also helped those moms who (like me) were completely losing thier minds, and that breastfeeding was not working and that they were gutted. I helped them get the formula that they needed.
Because I remember how it felt. I remember the guilt and shame that came from INSIDE ME. The feeling that I was not good enough. That all my baby needed to survive was milk from HIS mothers body, and that my body wasnt working. For every single time I pumped, used motilium and supplemented with that one bottle of formula a day (for the first 4 or so months) I felt like a FAILURE. Worthless. A loser.
Of course this could have been (and probably was) PPD, but I did not know at the time and I hated the people telling me that formula was not the devil and that breastfeeding would come with perserverance, exactly the same.
Of course we did overcome like I said before, but I needed to explain that guilt and shame for me comes from within.
So now. I have ceased to go to LLL meetings, or the other Breastfeeding Support Group in my city. I don't post things on breastfeeding and keep my nestle boycott to myself. I used to breastfeed in public all the time and with my 15 month old who is still nursing - i do not NIP, nor do I talkk about it. I will say to a mom who is NIP "good for you" but that is about it.
Why?
Because there are a couple lacivists in my community and in other parts of Canada (and the US) that use such black and white tactics that make my skin crawl. I do not agree with thier approach, or those of thier followers. It is very extreme and makes me not want to be lumped in with them. Its sad really.
I think if these particular activists could maybe see the damage that they are causing in regards to the relationships between other mothers and community then maybe we could have social change. I feel like every time I read a post, or a blog, or a newspaper story about these particular activists or read in forums or things what they say about formula it just makes me re live all those feelings. Because I ALREADY KNOW. And yes, I feel shame, I feel guilt and its not them making me feel that…but I feel that is also a way for people to be a bully… KWIM?
Like if my 6 year old was being told he was a loser by another boy because he didnt like sillybands, and I brought it up to the principal and she said "well, so and so doesnt *make* your son feel anything." :(
I honestly feel while yes, bra burning can be a statement…it doesnt have to be so "in your face" and sensationalized…..
It really makes me sad actually…after writing it all out.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterAlisha

I really appreciate this post because being an advocate vs. being judgmental is something I struggle with personally a lot. On a larger scale, I want to advocate for better education for pregnant women about childbirth and breastfeeding (among many other things), but I admit that I silently judge other women when I hear stories that I know could have gone differently if they had just educated themselves, sought support or properly planned. It's definitely a fine line and I find that women do not want to be made to feel guilty for their choices, so I keep my opinions to myself.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMel

I fall into the "no one can MAKE you feel anything" camp. I had very different nursing relationships with all three kids. I heard comments ranging from, "Why aren't you nursing your three-month-old, don't you know how bad formula is for them?" (as opposed to how bad it is for a kid to have a mouthy, judgmental cow who accosts strangers in the park for a mother?) to "Why are you still nursing a two-year-old? She doesn't need it, it's just for you."

When I had one child and we mused about sticking with one, people weighed in with rude comments about singletons, and now that we have three girls people ask if we're disappointed we didn't have a boy. When I'm staying at home I hear comments about how I'm wasting my talents; when I work I hear their concerns about other people "raising my kids."

Sometimes people are very vocal that they're judging you.
Sometimes you feel the judgement is implied in their advocacy of a different point of view.
Regardless, until you stop letting other people's opinions have such a strong influence on how you feel, you're not going to be as happy as you could be. I don't teach my daughter that other people's assessments of her are truth and she should feel bad if she's not pretty enough, smart enough, or behave and achieve in a certain manner. So I ensure I live by those standards.

I don't feel the slightest bit of guilt over not liking breastfeeding with my first and ending it early. Nor do I feel guilty for having three kids and using more of the world's resources doing so. I don't feel guilty letting my two-year-old have a drink of pop occasionally, or sending my eldest to school with Lunchables sometimes (the sodium!).

Where the heck was I going with this? lol. My position is that I appreciate advocacy (such as blogs like this and others with the totally opposite position) because I'm always interested in new ways of doing things, and improving myself. But a desire to improve your parenting doesn't have to go hand in hand with feeling guilty because you're not meeting someone else's standards of perfection, whether in breastfeeding or nutrition or discipline.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterSarah Deveau

Well said Michele and Sarah. We seem to want to "sanitize" emotions, so that people never feel anything "negative". People seem very bent on getting others to approve of/validate/agree with their choices, and if they can't agree, asking them to shut the hell up. People will NEVER agree, and will NEVER stop advocating for how they think things should be. Well, I think it's pretty simple to do something for your own reasons and just be happy with it. Accept your reasons. If you feel bad about what you did or why, forgive yourself for being human and make a better choice next time. Let strangers disagree with you. who cares? Walk away. Let it go. Drop it. If you don't feel validated, try validating yourself. If someone gives you advice, don't take it on unless it resonates on some level. There is all the info on every imaginable topic out there for everyone lucky enough to have internet access and we will never agree on everything or support every choice everyone makes about everything. The secret to peace is to just not give a shit about what does not ring true for you, and to feel good about doing what does. If you can expose yourself to other's opinions without going into spasms of shame, you may find that other people make a point that makes you think twice, or, that you actually feel surer than ever about your own opinion.Also, I think it's handy to remember that a mixture of feelings can co-exist in a person, so while I may feel that I did not get the support that I wanted to while breastfeeding, I know that I had to give formula in the end, and I regret that. I also may feel glad that other people can feed my baby and a bit guilty because I know that's not really what nature intended. Ultimately it is as it is, and though I don't feel prozac happy and valium even-keeled all the time, that's life and that's ok, and I do my best. Worth a try maybe?

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterSerabelle

Let's get this straight... I am not judging women who formula feed but if they feel guilt, shame,ect. and don't like when breastfeeding is promoted in ads than their opinion really doesn't matter because they are not looking at it logically... breast is best. Christina I have gone through 11 breast pumps and I know that some pumps perform at different levels... I also don't let down for cheap pumps. I understand where you are coming from but if you are going to be spending money on formula might as well invest the 20 dollars and invest in a medela spring pump... I saw them on ebay.

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterbrit9brit

Check out this item I found on eBay:

Medela SpringExpress Breastpump System, New in Box

Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Medela-SpringExpress-Breastpump-System-New-Box-/140600897596

September 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterbrit9brit

I actually find this confusing and perhaps badly phrased. What exactly is 'too much' when you speak of "too much pressure to breastfeed and not..." I struggle to figure out what too much would be when you already identified that the issue impeding is the inadequate level of support". By saying 'too much pressure' don't you make it into something that is not the norm?

September 17, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterCarla

Having read a good deal (though not all) of the comments I am struck by the amount of shaming of others and accepting shame that comes out in the comments! In a post about how shame has no place in this! sigh.

This makes me think that the issue of shame is not inherent in the issue discussed -whether this be breastfeeding, formula feeding, birthing, whatever- but in the fact that shame is, sadly, a central element of how many of us have learned to be women, mothers, daughters, females on many lands. Shame has been key to keeping women 'in their place' and the more we take things personally (and feel shame) and reject our own responsibility (and assign shame) the more we continue this vicious circle.

So I say, rise women! rise above what people say and don't take it to be about you. As a wise one says 'don't argue stupid arguments' (meaning, when the argument makes no sense, and there is nothing to be gained, save your breath) If it is not helping your cause, move along, take a breath and where you can advocate for change. And to shame and regret say: there is no place for you here.

September 17, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterCarla

Also, I am not worried about some "method" I might not be on board with taking away from my sense of pride or accomplishment. Such "methods" (wealth redistribution, "giving" the "gift" of universal daycare, etc. and on and on) take away others' potential sense of accomplishment, for one, and take away everyone's freedom. ALL parents in America, at least, are currently empowered to make good choices for their children. Many choose not to.

September 17, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMrsRochester

Here is a website that offers some information on the detrimental effects of daycare
http://empathicparenting.org/daycare/index.html, yes, the website is visually ugly and kind of scrapped together, but I appreciate their earnestness

And, a "radical feminist" site that calls for universal 24/7 daycare...so THIS is what people want? It disgusts me. Care for your own damn babies. Your glorious "career" is not as important as a little human...these things should be considered before a woman decides to have a baby. http://www.radicalwomen.org/childcare.shtml

September 17, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMrsRochester

I don't think that women feel "shamed" by activists. At least, most don't. Many women feel guilty about not breastfeeding or working outside the home, but often it's because of this tendency women have to assume guilt in situations that are actually out of their control. I don't know a single father who feels guilty because their child wasn't breastfed or because he works outside the home. I breastfed each of my four kids for about 6 months, because it was something that came relatively easily to me and I knew it was nutritionally the best thing. I'm no saint. I have no family close by. Had it been difficult to breastfeed, had my babies been suffering or had I been depressed and needing rest, I'd have formula fed and apologised to nobody. I stopped breastfeeding at about 6 months each time because I had to earn a living. My husband worked outside the home, but in Australia most families need two incomes to get by and maternity leave provisions are completely inadequate. I don't feel "shame" or guilt for going back to work and using childcare. I just did what I had to do, and my kids are fine. I suppose we could have sold our home and moved to a low socioeconomic area, which is what we've have had to do on one income, but I chose to go back to work and get myself into a position where I could pay for my kids to have the best education available. I don't care about expensive cars or clothes or toys, but I care passionately about education.

Here's the thing, guys: it's all in the delivery. Women don't feel "shame" about the choices they make (or which in many cases are made for them by external circumstances. Women feel guilt because they're socialised to believe that somehow they have sole responsibility for everybody else's welfare, and when they're not prioritising someone else 24-7-365 they feel guilty. What many women feel when activists start moralising is annoyed. Annoyed, because they know the facts about breastfeeding. Nobody can miss the facts. They're posted all over hospitals and all over the internet. Women aren't stupid; they know that breastfeeding is nutritionally the best thing for babies. Annoyed, because people don't make important decisions without a lot of soul searching. Annoyed, because they're tired of having unsolicited advice and information shoved down their necks. Annoyed, because many activists aren't respectful of other women's choices. THIS is the inconvenient truth: often, activists are not respectful when they raise their soapbox issues and initiate discussions.

At the end of the day, people make their decisions and live with the consequences. If I make a decision to do something, I don't want people to tell me day after day, "You know, you really should have done something else". No, I don't think I should have done something else. I weighed up various options and chose the one that was best for the people in my family. It's nobody else's business. I believe in the power of education to the extent that I'll pay big bucks to send my kids to the best schools I can find, but I don't tell people who prioritise other things that they're ruining their kids' lives or not caring about their kids enough. It's none of my business, and I'm sure they love their kids as much as I love mine. When people are secure in the decisions they make, they don't feel the need to confront other people all the time in an effort to validate themselves.

It's all in the delivery, guys. By all means throw copious amount of information into cyberspace. Some people will read it. But don't moralise, because people don't respond well to that. Live and let live.

September 18, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterCatherine

I smoked when my children were little. In the car, in the house, in front of them, all over them. Not a lot, but enough to harm them. I knew it wasn't very good for them, but recent info about it has led me to apologise to them. If anyone suggested that parents should not have access to this info, or that companies should be allowed to advertise cigarettes, to save my delicate feelings, I would be *gutted*. Of course children's health is more important than my 'shame'!!

September 18, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterRachel

I just think it's crap. All the activism in the world isn't going to stop pharmaceutical companies from selling formula. Look after your kids the way you see fit, and leave everyone else alone. If you want to make a difference, think about picketing governments for decent maternity leave provisions and good, affordable chilld care. But really. Get a life.

September 18, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterCatherine

Sorry - that last comment was a reaction to Rachel's comment about smoking. Seriously, Rachel? You needed "recent" information to realise that smoking was bad for your kids? And why are you "apologising" to your kids? You made your decisions, you did your best and your kids will survive. I honestly think that a lot of this 'activism' is happening because women feel irrelevant. It's hard to feel relevant to the rest of the world when you're a - what's the cyberspace acronym? - SAHM. Really and truly, in 10 years time you'll have stopped wanting to ram your views down everyone else's neck, because you'll have stopped living the intense existence of a SAHM to small children. None of this will seem so important anymore. In the meantime, pretend you're saving the world if it stops you from going insane. Sorry, but someone brought this post to my attention and I'm just saying what I think. We're all entitled to out opinion, and if you put something out there in cyberspace you're not going to always like the responses.

September 18, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterCatherine

MrsRochester:

I also support 24/7 daycare, not because I think people should (or would) put their babies into daycare 24/7, but because a 24/7 daycare system recognizes that not everyone works a Monday to Friday 9 to 5 job. Some people do work evenings or night shifts. Some people don't have a regular schedule and work different shifts each week. Some people work long days for five days and then have four days in a row off.

I also resent the idea that "these things should be considered before a woman decides to have a baby" for two reasons. First, I think that even people who cannot take afford to stay home full time or who happen to enjoy both their children and their work, still deserve to have families. Second, it shouldn't be entirely the WOMAN's responsibility -- she doesn't get pregnant all on her own and she isn't responsible for the children all on her own.

September 18, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

The website is, from what I've read, nothing more than opinion. Which people are entitled to but doesn't necessarily make it legitimate or universal for all. A simple Google Scholar search can yield plenty of information regarding childcare and all the arguments associated with it.

September 18, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterstephaniemz

"I do wish that human milk was more readily available so that people had that choice instead of using formula."

Annie, I really agree with this. When our triplets were born they were preemies, but only by 6 weeks (which is tremendous, but not the point of the story). The neonatologist on duty at their birth asked if I wanted to supplement with formula or donor milk first. My goal of course was to get my milk to come in as soon as possible, but that would take time and my preemies were going to be doing gevage tubes for a while before they could even learn to latch on and to suck. I said donor milk first and then formula second. Later that neonatologist got in trouble for the offer - our babies weren't preemie enough for donor milk. (And how could I argue really? When the donor milk supply is so limited, as a Mom of 34 week preemies, I would gladly give way to the Mom of 28 weekers, 26 weekers, 24 weekers - wouldn't anyone? Clearly in that case you give the donor milk to the preemies who need it most.) However, I would have loved for the supplement to be donor milk much more than formula. And, for other moms of multiples - I'd love for there to be a possibility for help with human milk like that.

I definitely had to let breastfeeding go earlier than I wanted, but I know it was still the right time for me. I can't say I didn't have support, most everyone just said, "any amount of time you can breastfeed with the triplets is better than not." I had 3 babies to care for and one day while pumping after nursing and having all 3 in bouncy seats around my chair, all in various stages of discomfort and tears, as I was saying, "Just a minute honey, Mommy has to pump for your next bottle," it hit me - this is not okay... being mommy is more than just pumping and with triplets that's how it began to feel. So, that was the beginning of the end for me. How I wish the option for more donor milk would be available in those situations.

September 18, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterLisa

Anything you read on daycare is going to be "opinion" and in my "opinion" the mainstream thought on it is definitely filtered through professional women, who, of course, use daycare. So, of course, they are going to say it's OK. If you or anyone else wants to give up the most important years of your child's life and have someone else be the primary during this time, I suppose that's your prerogative. Just don't expect me to cheer or support government programs that make this easier for people to do so. I get the sense that folks on this website are really into doing what's "best for children" what with the breastfeeding and AP bent and all, and to me, the defense of infants (not older toddlers and preschoolers...) in daycare is incongruous with that.

September 19, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMrsRochester

I would also like to pick up on your "universal for all" clause and agree taht, yes, nothing is "universal for all" and provision of daycare certainly should not be "universal for all." What I am willing to wager *is* universal for all is that, unless the mother is some psychopathic abuser, an infant would most prefer to be with its mother, nestled in her arms and discovering the world within her arm's reach, than in daycare.

September 19, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMrsRochester

I think you are mixing two different issues together - mothers who work outside the home (doesn't fit in with your parenting philosophy) and parents who receive government assistance for child care (doesn't fit in with your political philosophy).

September 19, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterKatie

Neither are what I feel to be "right"* however, I do not deem it within my "power" to make the call for whether people do it or not, but it is within my right and "power" as a taxpayer and U.S. citizen to oppose government assistance for this. *Asterisk because I think it's fine for a mother of an older, school-age child to work outside of the home as long as she is still able to give the child proper care. I do not believe it is possible to give an under 3 yo proper care while working outside of the home full time. This is, of course, just my opinion, and as I said, people can do what they will. I just am not going to jump on board to pay for their misdoings.

September 19, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMrsRochester

I think that you are missing a few things here (and I fully understand that this is now outside of the scope of what the OP had intended). Working outside the home is not a "misdoing". There is absolutely no empiracal evidence to suggest this. MANY women bf full time and practice attachment parenting while working full time. It is tricky certainly, but it is possible. Example - mom works during the day from 9AM to 5PM - she sleeps with baby, nurses baby throughout the night, is with baby at all times when not working, wears baby, etc. During her work time, dad or grandparent is caring for baby in an attached way. Mom comes home at lunch to nurse baby. Mom also pumps during the day. Due to mom reverse cycling, baby does not need to nurse as often during the day.

In Canada, we get a year of paid Mat leave - no one is "paying" for that mat leave. We (as workers) pay for it ourselves on each of our paycheques and when we need to use it, it's there.

While you may not believe that it is possible to give a child under 3 proper care while working, there is no evidence to suggest that this is a fact. If you don't want to support or be kind to people who work while having a baby, that's you. It's too bad, because as we're discussing in this post, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

September 19, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterJenn (twitter - @JennAbitbol

There actually are several studies that indicate benefits of daycare - better language and social skills, better immune systems, increased academic readiness. I can post references when I have more time. Perhaps staying home with mom is the ideal, but sadly not an option for most families in North America no matter how much planning is done prior to having children.

September 19, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterRebecca
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